Actually, I am not sure if this was in effect when you started here, but someone (I forget whom) mentioned that WA used to have a system of gold bars. Each member would have a given number of these and could "pay" them to someone that helped them, and they could later be used for various perks. The community could even get together en masse to give some to a member who might be having difficulty. This, to me, seems like a really interesting system that still rewards helpers, but without the same potential for abuse that rank has.

I'm sure it wasn't a perfect system-- why else would they switch away from it-- but I personally feel it would work better than rank.

Yes, I was here when that was in place, it was part of the old forum system. It solved the problem of how to say a proper "thank you" when a member went an extra mile or ten for you. However, bringing that back wouldn't resolve the issue of how newcomers are supposed to recognise those that are qualified to help and support them through the training in the first place, which is what rank was originally supposed to be all about.

True enough...

Perhaps the solutions lies in what some other people have suggested: offer more substantial rewards for those who become ambassadors, but in exchange have more stringent requirements, such as seniority/ length of membership and demonstrated knowledge by passing a test or series of tests (though how one would prevent some sort of cheating I am not sure). Perhaps even requiring they be vetted by two or more existing ambassadors (though that runs the risk of admission by popularity).

Ambassadors could then be the real, true business experts here at WA, and we could perhaps have a different title for those who contribute via all the other stuff like motivational posts, sharing their experiences, etc.

I know they want to reward people for creating content that fosters engagement, but there are surely ways to do that beyond the title of ambassador... I myself have become ambassador simply by trying to learn (asking questions) and offer support (motivational stuff, sharing my journey), but I am not a business expert and have never claimed to be. I try to always be clear about that. The only way to lose the title, however, is to stop posting, and I don't want to do that, even though there are people more worthy of the title than I.

The problem is members come-and-go, their circumstances can change day-to-day, so anything that isn't automated runs the risk of becoming a stagnant list, where such vetted Ambassadors may not even be regular attendees on the platform the week after they've been 'approved'.

It's the same problem as asking K&C to make Ambassadorship by appointment, as has been discussed in the past.

I think simply making it a condition that anyone can be an Ambassador as long as they've been here two years or more, will kill two birds with one stone. It stops the Game of Rank in its tracks and it *should* mean that Ambassadors have experience in going through the core training and building a website or two!

It's a tough balance to find, we already have a support in place and part of our training talks about how to seek help, perhaps it's a constant improvement thing we will need to seek out.

good ideas, @Rich

Too often it is the blind leading the blind and it is very, very detrimental to the success of the person asking (and those others reading the answers in the future)...

I agree wholeheartedly with your original post, but I don't think the problem you're talking about is going to stop, until the issues raised by the gaming of rank are resolved. I know from my own experience that I probably now only help less than half the number of members I did a year ago, simply because it is now so much more effort to wade through all the *noise* of non-IM content, so I don't bother as much.

Carson has said he's looking into dividing content up into streams in Phase 2 of the update, so that those who wish to focus on building their businesses without the distraction of social content will be able to do so. However, I don't know the scheduling of Phase 2, it could be a while away. It also still doesn't address the issue of which members newcomers can rely on for Grade A advice, help and support, which was the original intention of ranking.

Not sure if this is answered below, but in the credit dashboard, you can transfer credits to other members.

https://my.wealthyaffiliate.com/credits

See the screenshot.

OK, now I've seen everything, an Ambassador, hustling for credits. *sigh* ;)

Neat!
I didn't know that. If someone else mentioned it, I missed it.

I'm noticing today especially there's a bunch of crazy answers and advice being given by new people to new people, a trend that has always been there but is really visible at the moment for some reason

so it's not just an ambassador and rank issue - or if it is, it is because newbies are told in the early classes by Kyle to aim for ambassador by helping out - so naturally they jump in and while mutual support is great and bonds us, the actual answers are an issue that will make a lot of people leave - hence the bottom line of the miserable average stay in the best online platform with the best resources, ie 4 months and they're out the door again

So instead of appealing to the members here to behave differently and all the confusion that brings [and some of them not listening anyway] we need to appeal to Kyle

Outstanding ideas!

I actually ran into that issue when I first began here at WA! The answers weren't coming in from questions I had.

I can understand why some would want to leave. I push the helping nature here that those who are tech newbies can feel confident in becoming an affiliate.

However I remember reading from Kyle that we shouldn't answer if we don't know so I figured no one knew answers or were never on live chat.

Definitely an engaging post I tend to read through the thread to gain others point of view!

Shannon

Good thoughts and lots of additional comments and ideas in the comment thread...

Here are mine:

As my business online and offline has ramped up, I have less and less time to spend at Wealthy Affiliate, a good and hoped-for outcome and the reason we are all here (?)...

When I do pop in to the site, I seldom try to look at questions these days because there are too many frivolous ones being asked for the rank thing you mention.

This appears to be the case even after the changes to the ranking algorithms the Carson and Kyle have implemented.

Not only that...

I used to be able to pick up bits and pieces of valuable tips and ideas each time I stopped in, but because of the noise (useless or irrelevant to me content) it gets harder to do that these days...

My time is limited, and I do not want to spend what I have allocated to Wealthy Affiliate with drilling down and through lots of wasted electrons (IMO).

Back to the question thing...

Regarding people answering questions members ask incorrectly or with a nonsensical answer like "I don't know" ...I too see this when I happen to look at a question...

Although such answers seem to be more electrons that fall into the waste of time category (or an innocuous misundestanding perhaps), it can mislead the person asking the question...

I suspect it also is somewhat related to the ranking thing...

So the suggestion to not answer at all is good advice IMO, it is not helping others when you mis-use them to improve your rank...

I do understand that it is quite easy to get caught up in the community here and seek social affirmation with a high rank, but truthfully that does zip for your real reasons (at least mine) to be here.

My reasons?

To learn more and grow my business.

Do not get me wrong...The social thing does have its place, and rank is a piece of that, I guess. It helps keep people engaged, motivated to contribute, etc.

How does that relate to high rank?

As you rightly point out, some of the more experienced members here, who have had success with affiliate marketing and perhaps other online market segments, do not share much of that knowledge with the general membership...

What good does having a high rank because of that experience and using whatever algorithm may be in use for ranking do if these members do not help others?

Also, quite frankly, the attitude I have seen in replies or posts of some members who might have the knowledge bothers me...I have said this in other threads and I will say it again here:

All people need to remember that they may be a big fish in a small pond (here) but that there is a big ocean out there (the rest of the global market) where they are one amongst many fish, and in that big ocean there are some REALLY big fish (multi-millionaire marketers)...

So...A little bit of humility when interacting with other members goes a long ways when it comes to how whatever advice or guidance that is passed on is received.

This is leadership 101, but it needs to be said.

The title "Ambassador" indicates a position of leadership. Act like one is how I feel. A good one, preferably...There are thousands of books on leadership, spend a little time with a few maybe? I have and do...

Growth is a never ending process, or it can be, should you choose that path.

There are some bad examples out there of people who somehow get into positions well beyond their capabilities...

Read a book called "The Peter Principle" to know more about what I am speaking of (or read the morning paper/catch up on the news?)....

Maybe everyone can remember where they came from (everyone started at zero at one point?), how you got there, and who helped you along the way (and how did they pass on their knowledge?)...

Bottom Line:

Some of the best mentors I have had in my life (not from here) offered their advice and guidance freely, openly, and from a perspective of "We are all the same at the end of the day:"

Trying to be all we can be...Part of that is helping others be all they can be, again IMO...

Good thread...

Cheers!
Dave : )

You're on it Rich... I never, ever go to live chat now. Very rarely do I check to see if there's any unanswered questions. It is stinkin' depressing to see how much garbage is passed as supposedly solid truth... untotallybelievable!!!

Agreed with all you have said Rich.

As for me, the majority of those who helped me achieve my success do not seem to be active here anymore.

With the exception of Kyle, Carson and Jay, you and Craig (Labman) are the only members who helped me in my newbie days that are still active here.

I no longer see Paul Dean or Beverley (BIS), who both helped me greatly as well. And on occasion I will see Tommy Dillard pop up.

But I understand for many of the older veterans, they have moved on to bigger and/or better things and just do not have the time or desire to interact.

It is like they have passed the torch onto us still here and active.

Hello - you. Glad to know you've missed me. I rejoined two days ago!

*dragged kicking and screaming back in to WA by me!! :D

Yes Robert. Blame him! I'm trying to work out what I'm doing here!

Great analogy Robert...

I believe you are right...

That also puts a bit of unseen weight on the shoulders/arms of the standard bearers remaining...

The "torch" gets heavy after holding it up for a period of time?

Cheers!
Dave : )

Hi stranger. My rank history shows that I was an Ambassador for almost 200 days. How much did that earn me...not one penny. How much did working on my own stuff earn me...a few pennies (and that's an understatement.)

I absolutely agree, Eddy blogged on the blind-leading-the-blind a few years back, so I'm afraid this continues to be an ongoing problem. Why You Need To Ignore WA Member Advice Right Now!

Hi Beverley, it is good to see you back here at WA. I have missed you and those great infographics you used to include in your blogs/tutorials.

Good for you Rich. Getting some of the former WA veterans back is a good thing I think.

Aw, Rick my friend, how are you?! It's great to see you're still about. I absolutely agree, and I trust a few pennies really was a huge understatement. ;) I too am always saying that my WA rank has never contributed a dime to my earnings. :D

I'm good. A year to retirement so I'm focussing on some extra income. Glad to see you back and helping so many people. Take care.

Aw, fantastic, Beverley is back too. :)

It's one of the things I really miss too, experienced members with specialised knowledge, sharing their expertise in blogs and training. Unfortunately, there's little 'advanced' content being generated these days, simply because those capable of doing it aren't willing to see it quickly buried under an avalanche of irrelevant *noise*.

I know that is the number in the WA Affiliate 'How much you can earn' calculator, but I thought the WA retention statistic had improved. Is this actually compiled and kept up to date anywhere here on the platform?

unless @Rich is in there ;)

it used to be taught in bootcamp, I've quoted the number a few times now and never been contradicted, they should say it has moved if so...

Yuppers Mary... ya' got a point there my friend!!!

Aw, thanks a lot. I really wish they weren't necessary though!

Firstly, thank you for the in-depth response, it's really appreciated.

I'm afraid there will always be members who suffer from guru-itis and have an unhealthy desire to be big fish in small ponds. I wish they'd look to Kyle and Carson as role models and realise how sad their current silly little me-me-me attitude really is.

As I've said elsewhere, the lack of support from knowledgeable, experienced, successful members is an issue. The majority of those who helped me achieve my success now refuse to engage, telling me they don't have the time nor the patience to weed out the genuine questions from the social posting, the clickbait titles, the faux questions, the daily avalanche of motivational quotations, etc. etc.

The algorithm update has proved a point though, despite members protestations to the contrary, some social content was being posted to game rank, as can be seen by the fact that the amount of it has dropped since it is no longer rewarded.

I'm hopeful that a few further tweaks to the algo to address the 'questions' issue, the launch of Phase 2 of the update which will allow members to decide whether or not they see any social content whatsoever, and perhaps restriction on the speed at which members can become Ambassadors and provide certified training, might satisfy the majority of members going forward.

I'll be keeping my fingers crossed in the interim! :)

lol, yuppers Randy!

I agree. 100%

In just the last few weeks, I've helped two members who were advised by an Ambassador to copy images, product descriptions, star ratings and customer reviews from Amazon to their own site and assemble them within tables, as this would result in them "achieving a lot more sales".

I'm afraid one of these members came to me having already lost their Amazon affiliation, the other has now had to waste a huge amount of hours reversing such catastrophic advice before they end up losing theirs too.

If the member who lost their affiliation has their reapplication to Amazon refused, then months of hard work has gone down the drain, as there's no other affiliated supplier of the products they promote.

Nightmare.

Awesome stuff mentioned here Rich! Appreciate all the great feedback you've given!

Quick Q on the note of Amazon images. I know if you promote a product, you can use the images from Amazon on your site, but if I edit the image slightly, such as perhaps add a little text underneath the image that says, "buy this here", is this still fine?

Oh man Rich, that hurts my heart! That's just not right!!!

No, apparently not, I assume it's because Amazon doesn't own the copyright of the images it uses, so their official line now is that you are only allowed to embed, not copy and paste.

If you're looking for product images, always check out the manufacturers websites, look for a press or media link. You'll often find whole sections or even entire subdomains of content you can use, ie. Sony at http://presscentre.sony.eu/ and Sandisk at https://www.sandisk.co.uk/about/media-center/media-resources or Gamespress at http://blizzard.gamespress.com/Overwatch etc.

If there is no repository of images, just email the press or media office and request what you need, most will happily send you links by return.

2h) You will not store or cache Product Advertising Content consisting of an image, but you may store a link to Product Advertising Content consisting of an image for up to 24 hours. You may store other Product Advertising Content that does not consist of images for caching purposes for up to 24 hours, but if you do so you must immediately thereafter refresh and re-display the Product Advertising Content by making a call to the PA API or retrieving a new Data Feed and refreshing the Product Advertising Content on your application immediately thereafter.
https://affiliate-program.amazon.com/help/operating/policies

Wow awesome stuff man, thanks!

No probs. you're most welcome! :)

how can we persuade him to do a training on this :)

I've been seeing that for months, Randy. Wrote a couple of posts back in June because ambassadors were hurting peeps with advice, often taken from 'gurus' outside the platform...or as I see in recent weeks just off the top of their heads, some people just love to give advice, some of the bad advisors make it to ambassador, it's as if the system doesn't catch it anywhere early on - back to making an ambassador bootcamp methinks...at least something to help them deal with the oxygen being a little thinner at the top :D

newbies and ambassadors alike, bad advice is a trend needs stomped out, and this post didn't do it...yet

As usual... you're sayin' what I'm a thinkin'. I think some of that 'thin air' is a bit 'o Alien 'hot air'... LOL!!!

Good grief ... does Kyle know this has been going on?

Of course he knows, Carson too Dennis. That's one of the reasons there's been a change to the ambassador platform. But it is a work in progress overall.

That is horrible (the comment about the member losing Amazon affiliation).

I certainly hope that whomever gave that advice has been informed about the screw up.

Awful.

update: I'm seeing a new stat implied in the new updated bootcamp, when they say average earnings on a new referral is now $150, that implies about 6 months, but it is not directly stated as far as I can tell and they let the old stats ride all the time in the comments...

Yes. Jay too. WA Ambassadors: Know Your Limits

what I didn't get about Tony's post is that he engaged in the exact same behavior he condemned, and it should be one rule for all

I think he admits to that transgression in his latest WA Post.

But it seems to me this is different than the issue Tony raised in the thread (I can not locate) and the point Vitaliy is making above, and strongly supported by one of WA's most qualified members (@Rich).

This is more about unqualifed responses to questions asked by members on the Ask a question platform.

Just saying.

You can't find Tony's thread because it was removed. He was totally wrong and accused that member who is innocent of his rant. Kyle stated what was posted as a question was valid and Kyle himself does the same thing himself.

I left a comment on that post thinking it was something else but removed it when I realized what it was. A couple of Ambassadors who have been mentioned here as mature and qualified joined in with this immature bashing. I saw the comments and have access to this post. Kyle knows. I lost respect for them!

This member will continue with what he was attacked for because it is of help to other members.

I will leave the rest of what I want to add separately responding to the topic here.

One thing I will say, I was a victim of a couple of members who gamed the system, one disappeared from the Ambassador list the other remains, after the new changes took place. I got spammed hundreds of times and my website was attacked badly. It was weeks of hell, I almost left. Yes Kyle knows and took care of it.

The gaming continues and I want to get off the Ambassador list!
I didn't want to be there it was because of the blog posts I wrote while working on my website. I wrote to get help with issues which in turn helped many members and I gradually ended up there.

Thank you for the clarification.

You are welcome, keep in mind...that a couple of the 'most qualified' members noted here joined in with this rant and disrespected members who had their own opinion. I unfollowed 'him' and hope he doesn't drop by my blog posts again. As for the other one who knows it all, not worth it.

Jay, you are the ambassador of all ambassadors

Agreed. I've been seeing the same thing.

Yeah I had the same reaction when I read that too. I don't even think a lot of them even think about rank when they make these replies, it's just about participating I guess, like having a like on FB or other social media channels.

Like the spam button on top, how about a button on the bottom of posts that is used for a questionable response to a query? It'd read, 'Please check that information again', 'That answer doesn't sound right' or something else appropriate. If the button is hit, the text pops up and stays till said answer is checked & noted as right or wrong (with correct answer supplied) by an ambassador of at least 2 years standing!

I've got my top picks and I agree, Jay's up there! lol