Deeply Disappointed With A Few of Our WA Ambassadors

Last Update: October 21, 2016
  • "Self-Appointed Member Of the Spam Police" (1) (Original Poster)
  • "..I am laughing my tail off at the inconsiderate people" (2)
  • "...I'm just not in favor of spam police in general." (1) (Original Poster)
  • "The loser obviously has far too much time on his hands ;-)"
  • "He can't possibly be doing anything creative himself... he's too busy minding everyone else's business." (1) (3)
  • "As in every community, there will be small minded people," (1) (3)

(1) Comment from WA Ambassadors

(2) Comment from Top 50 WA member

(3) Comment from WA Ambassador who puts images in signatures(violation of rule #16 from the Spam is a NO-NO https://my.wealthyaffiliate.com/training/wealthy-a... blog post by Kyle)

Note: "Original Poster" as used above and throughout my post refers to the person who I commented on their blog and they subsequently made another blog indirectly attacking and bullying me.


In just a small handful of comments, I was called "inconsiderate", referred to with an unflattering, unwanted title of "Spam Police" (the original poster is still making posts and referencing the "SPAM Police"), called a loser, was told that I was not creative, and called small-minded.

The most mind blowing part of it all? Most of these people are either WA Ambassadors or have a high rank within WA.

What did I do to deserve this type of treatment from these people?

I simply commented on an Ambassador's blog post and mentioned that I thought it was in violation of a set of rules laid out in one of Kyle's blog posts called "Spam is a No-No" https://my.wealthyaffiliate.com/training/wealthy-a.... Although the title contains the word Spam, the rules cover a much broader swath of what you should post/not post and how you should behave/not behave.


Put Yourself In My Shoes

How would you like it if your sister, brother, father, mother, daughter, husband, wife, nephew, niece, grandpa or grandma became a member of WA and had these types of comments made about them?

How would you like it if somebody you referred to WA had these types of comments made about them and your referral subsequently left the community directly impacting your bottom line?

I assure you the loss of income is nothing compared to something like these comments causing somebody to give up on affiliate/internet marketing completely.

After my initial comment on the the Original Poster's post, there have been a few more posts made by the Original Poster and some comments left on his blog posts by a few different people that I feel the need to address, in addition to the ones I have already addressed above.


It's Not Spam

"Thanks [Name Removed]. Not spam to me" -Commenter

This "Top 100" ranked person missed the boat completely. As I already mentioned above, Kyle's post covers a lot more things than just SPAM.

"I like it and find nothing in it spam ;) Thanks" -Commenter

See my above comment in reference to the other comment saying it wasn't spam.


It's Art Not Religion

"In No Way Could It Be Construed As Proselytizing." -Original poster in follow up post.

"I didn't really consider it a religion based post, Tom. It was a song, meant to be funny. I thank you for your comments, but it might be good to try to lighten up a bit. I try to stay away from "flare ups." Have a good day. :)" -Original Poster

"There was no religion in [Original Poster]'s song.He spoke of Jesus like he would of Angel Gabriel , or the Hatter, or Scarecrow, or I don't know who...Jesus in this song was not God, he was a character retaining some features of Jesus- it's art , after all. Sure not many preachers in the churches would approve of this song. It definitely teaches light and kindness, but not many Christian magazines would publish it..." -Commenter

I get it. You don't consider your post to be religion or faith based. You consider it to be art. However, you are missing the point. Just because it's art that happens to use religious symbols from a particular religion, doesn't mean that your art is immune from offending people because "it's just art".

Although your original post may have been just art, it did inspire some religious comments from other WA members which could easily bother other WA member's that have different beliefs. Please do remember that we have WA members from all around the world.


The "WA Community" Likes These Posts

"I've Done 263 (Counting This One) Blogs In the Approximately 7 1/2 Months I've Been Here At Wealthy Affiliate. I Believe Most Of Them Have Been Well Received, and They Are a Big Reason Why I Have Ascended To the Rank Of Ambassador." -Original Poster

Your posts may very well have been well received by the core group of 20-30 people that actively read and comment on your blog posts.

However, there are more than 30-40 people in the WA community. I've read in other posts that WA pays out more than $1 million in affiliate commissions year. Do the math and that equates to THOUSANDS if not TENS of THOUSANDS of paying members.

Just because it's well received by 20-30 people doesn't mean it's well received by the rest of the WA community.


"I Have Never Received a Derogatory Comment." -Original Poster

This also is a comment made by the Original Poster in his subsequent post. "Derogatory" is a pretty strong word to use in regards to my comment. There was nothing disrespectful, disparaging, or critical about my remarks. I simply pointed out that I thought you were violating some rules in the "Spam is a No-No" blog post.

Just because people haven't told you they don't like what you are posting, doesn't mean they don't have an issue with it. I saw several of your posts before the one in question. I clicked on them, scrolled through them and left without saying anything.

I didn't really think it was appropriate content for WA because I didn't think it was related to online business or could be part of someone's "online journey", but I didn't see it to be an overall detriment to WA aside from a slight of annoyance of having to see it in my feed and take the time to look at it only to find out that it was something that I wasn't interested in.

However, I did think your "Tongue In Cheek Post" warranted a comment based off of past events that have occurred at WA(before you were a member) where an Ambassador was posting religious content regularly. Eventually another WA member spoke up about it and it created a huge rift in the community where people took sides. People ended up losing their write privileges and others decided to quit WA altogether.

One of the things that I found the most interesting about the entire thing was that a lot of people that were against it, weren't against it because of the religious content. They were against it because it was off topic and not related to online business. They came here to learn about online business and didn't appreciate the off topics posts clogging up their WA feed.

One of the reasons why I haven't been commenting on your posts is because I want to avoid a repeat of what happened back then. However, I also do feel necessary to voice my concerns especially when I have a WA Ambassador launching thinly-veiled attacks against me under the guise of just having fun.


Basically telling us to mind our own business

"I don't feel it was a faith or religion based post either-It was a humorous song based post. I think you guys worry too much. :)" -Original poster in his follow up post to another WA member that expressed the same concerns as me." -Original Poster

I have cause to worry, although it's not so much worry as seeing what has happened in the past when off topic content has been posted regularly and people point out that this comment really isn't related to "online business".


"Online Experience Is Subjective"

"Well, {WA member's name], I don't try to determine relevance in other people's posts. Our own respective journeys, online or offline, are highly individualized, and determining relevance is a subjective matter." -Original Poster

Well, congratulations on finding a small loop-hole you can wriggle your way through. However, this is the same reason why I don't go commenting on every single blog post that I see in my WA feed that is obviously not related to online business telling them it's not related to online business, so they shouldn't post it.

I realize that leeway is important for maintaining a vibrant, active community. Nobody likes people who go around trying to enforce rules all of the time. However, if you want that leeway then you should exercise judgment with that leeway and try to avoid publishing "controversial art" or art that has the potential to cause controversy and/or offense.

Obviously, you can't predict everything that people might find offensive and I'm not asking you to. However, I am asking you to maybe stop and think:

"Hmm, they say don't post religion or faith based posts, so maybe it's not the best idea for me to post my art that has religious artifacts in it."

Furthermore, since you have posted 265 blog posts you must be pretty familiar with the WA blog post editor. You've probably clicked on the hyperlink in the bottom left that says "Read the rules about blogging at WA here". If you click that link you'll find the following rules:

"2. Keep religion and politics out of your posts. Everyone comes from different walks of life and you know how fired up people can get about these topics. It is best to stay away from posts like this for the better nature of the community."

This give you even less room to wriggle. It says "Keep religion and politics out of your posts". This should be another clue that maybe you shouldn't post art containing religious artifacts/symbols/figures.

"3. Keep the conversation on topic. Your blog here is to share your experiences within WA and with creating your business online. Your website is for posting "niche" related content, so keep anything that is relevant to your niche there. You don't want to waste your awesome niche content by posting it somewhere other than your site."

In your profile you say that you are in a band. It seems to me that music is your niche. You posting song lyrics is no different than someone posting baking recipes, workout routines, investment strategies, etc.

It doesn't belong on your WA blog, it belongs on your niche website. Yes, a lot of people share stuff that doesn't belong and, no, I don't go around policing everybody's blog trying to enforce the rules because I think that would detract from the WA environment.

However, when there is a WA Ambassador that is posting stuff that has caused issues in the past I'm going to say something. This is because people will see a WA Ambassador posting stuff against the rules and then they see no reason to follow the rules.

What just began as WA Ambassadors posting off topic conversation and having image signatures at the end of their post(breaking rule# 16) will turn into people sharing affiliate links, trying to recruit people into the greatest and latest MLM company, and in general turning WA into a place where people don't want to be at anymore.


"Laissez Faire Attitude"

"I Greatly Appreciate the Laissez Faire Attitude That Seems To Prevail Here At WA: Things Will Work Themselves Out. (And That's What Almost Always Happens!)" -Original Poster

Things only work themselves out when people actively work to resolve an issue instead of trying to silence another WA member with indirect attacks like the ones I received(see beginning of this post and don't forget about your whole SPAM police post.)

That post was not "just fun" like you told a person who commented and likes your songs, but felt that your SPAM Police blog post was inappropriate. That blog post was not "just fun" There's another word to describe what you did in that post and that word is BULLYING.

It saddens me that I was treated the way I was by both you and those other WA members. Not a single member of WA should ever be marginalized and that is exactly what you and those other WA members chose to do to me.

You assumed that your group of 20-30 WA members(and they assumed as well) that since they like this content the entire WA community likes this content and since I spoke out about I must just be a "small minded" "loser" who isn't creative.


I Liked It, So Everybody At WA Likes It

"Hi [Original Poster's Name],

Sorry to know you had a bad response from one of us.

the good thing is that, based on responses, most of the community, including me, enjoy your creativity.

[Commenter's Name]"

-Commenter

"This is a shame [Original Poster's Name]; I really enjoy your blogs and I'm sure everyone else does in the WA community whom had read them except for 1 person. Not a bad percentage. Keep up the good work."

-Commenter

As I said before, 20-30 people liking your posts is not equal to the entire "WA Community" liking your post. There are THOUSANDS of WA members from all around the world, so don't claim that your opinion is representative of the entire WA community.

I tried to have a discussion with the original poster, but he was too focused on the fact that he considered his original post to be art and not proselytizing that he couldn't see how his art with religious content could offend people.

"Sure not many preachers in the churches would approve of this song. It definitely teaches light and kindness, but not many Christian magazines would publish it..."

-Commenter

This kind of explains what I'm trying to get at, just because you're not proselytizing doesn't mean you can't offend people. You can very easily offend the people of the faith/religion your are borrowing those religious artifacts/icons/figures from.


Conclusion

Sorry, this had to be so long. I definitely hate to bring this back up and give it anymore attention, but I can't just sit back and be bullied by WA Ambassadors that don't feel they should follow the rules that have been clearly laid out for us to follow.

Join the Discussion
Write something…
Recent messages
Sorayacge Premium
It's sad to read, because so far I've only seen the supportive, friendly side of WA and I suppose I thought it was always that way. That's what makes it stand out so much as a great community. I feel that this is a place where I can learn to post more openly without the fear of being insulted in return.

On other sites where I have been a member in the past there were so many people throwing sharp insults at posts that it put the brakes on for me regarding posting. Once I posted something without any ill intention and got a whole bunch of angry people attacking me. I went bright red and felt crushed when I saw their comments! I hadn't meant any harm, I just had a different approach to them and sometimes people don't like that.

WA does seem to be more positive, but I suppose realistically, sometimes, some people are not going to live up to the general rule of thumb, as in this case for you.

I know that it hurts and it shocks when you get personally rude comments online so I'm sorry that this happened to you...

Don't let it stop you. Keep going forward in a positive way! :-)
Reply
ThomasPaul Premium Plus
It's definitely not going to stop me, but I felt for my personal mental well-being I had to speak out and express my thoughts and get it out in the open.

I believe one of the most divisive things is sharp criticism. I don't care if people disagree with me and have different opinions on subjects, that's what makes the world we live in so interesting. However, I do take offensive when someone has a different view point and instead of pointing out their point of view they feel the need to belittle me and attack me indirectly.

I get all sorts of rude comments on youtube all of the time, so it's not something that I take personally. However, I feel WA is a great place and I would hate it to turn into the site you described with a bunch of sharp insults going back in forth.
Reply
BeauAndNik Premium
Great post. I recently received a PM from someone who verbally attacked me. Calling me every name under the sun. Even called the person I was trying to help my botoxed pornstar girlfriend.

Was quite a shock to be honest. I know I am rough around the edges. Being dyslexic sometimes my filter doesn't strain out my straight forwardness so at times I can seem a little sharp..
Reply
Should have immediately reported this to Carson & Kyle. Totally against the rules at WA and would most likely result in that member being shown the door. Totally not acceptable behavior under any circumstance. If you still have the PM and not deleted it, I'd still report it.
Reply
BeauAndNik Premium
I have the pm and a screenshot.
Reply
MozMary Premium Plus
Did you see the 'abuse' button under their comment...
Reply
ThomasPaul Premium Plus
Wow, yeah that is definitely way out of bounds and uncalled for.
Reply
BeauAndNik Premium
I agree. I blocked and reported. Havent heard anything back so not sure whats going on
Reply
Kyle Premium Plus
Good news in respect to Ambassadorship, we have been refining this platform behind the scenes and do have some improvements.

No system is perfect, when there is both technology and human activity involved, it is tough to get the perfect mix down and you ultimately cannot control human behaviour.

In saying this, the entire ambassadorship program is on our radar and you are going to see some improvements and steps forward in this respect in the near future. It has been in the testing phase and we want to get things right before we roll it out. There are some folks that shouldn't be ambassadors that may be (or should be on the fringes) and there are some people that should be ambassadors that are not.

Like Google, the algo behind Ambassadorship is something we are constantly working on. WA Ambassador Penguin rolling out pre-winter this year!
Reply
Boothe Premium
Good news! Excited to hear that! I think a lot of folks will appreciate further improvements to that system. :D Thanks for letting us know, Kyle
Reply
Brendie Premium
Yippee! This is exciting news! Can't wait to see how it turns out!
Reply
ThomasPaul Premium Plus
Hi Kyle, one of the things I like the most about WA is the fact that you guys are always working to improve it and make it better. You have done an awesome job of making WA a great place to be over the years and I'm sure you'll do an equally awesome job of continuing to improve it.
Reply
Since I began here back in the very beginning of 2010, you were one of the folks who came and helped when I needed it. I see a number of things in your blog that I've been through since I've been here. It's sad that this has to be, but that's what happens when in a massive group like this.

I have asked folks who don't agree with me to put themselves in my shoes for that short while. We are living in a world of increasing intolerance. I will use this to refer to the religion/art issues as well. I too, have been called out for just saying "I'll pray for you!" It is so sad. I have to keep the #1 thing in my life silent. It's nothing new however. Been going on for centuries. However, this "politically-incorrect" thing that we keep hearing about has been the topic that has brought out lawsuits and broken homes. So, so sad!

Remember way, way back, during the first few months I was here, when I got flamed for something I said, that got some members slamming me for being derogatory? It was something I said that was totally misconstrued. It wasn't the first time. It happened about two more times and I was thrown off the WA mountain-top by other ambassadors - all of which are no longer here! You might remember that, in my totally spun-up mind, and in desperation of what to do, I've deleted my blogs and all!

I've been told to get off WA (and do my campaigns) that I've been nothing more than a pontificate. I got to the point where this just wasn't worth it. My trying to help out was causing more harm than good - simply because there were folks on here that didn't think I belonged on the Ambassador list when it was the top 10. I dropped out, whether for the good of the membership or not, but for my own good, not that I wanted to, I needed to. Remember @RICH? He's gone now, but when he was here, and his side kicks, it was living hell for me. I don't even want to mention what these Ambassadors did to me outside the platform!

None of this reflect's the standing philosophy held dear by this community - the idea of paying it forward. You just get bad apples at time and it cannot be avoided. Sometimes these apples get mixed up with the best, spoiling the whole bunch!

Now comes the encourage part: I personally think you are an awesome person, down to earth and a very kind hearted, wonderful asset to this community. There are definitely people who do not belong in the Ambassador positions they hold, but who am I to say? I don't know most of them now, nor do I spend any of my time on here like I used to.

Wealthy Affiliate is awesome in what it has to offer, and that for the most part, has always drawn in a better lot of people, most with family values. However, WA is not immune to jerks and idiots that sometimes come in, with attitudes of climbing on people to get to the top. It's these people who have businesses that fail, if not sooner, later.

You mentioned referrals. Yes, I've had my own brother on here, but he's unique in his own ways and all it took was one of the Ambassadors making fun of him and that put an end to his membership and he will never return, though I tried to tell him that was not Wealthy Affiliate, it was an idiot that didn't belong there, his membership lasting not anymore than three weeks tops.

You know what's here and where the real value lies in Wealthy Affiliate. Remember that algorithm cannot see human motives and intentions. It cannot detect who's good or not so good, so we will always get disappointing examples of high-ranking and Ambassador representatives on here that simply do not belong there. A true Ambassador representation should NEVER be chosen by algorithm. It should be a hand-picked affair, perhaps more on the level of how politics are done in democracy - by voting - or simply who Kyle & Carson think should be on it. It should be a human-generated thing, not a machine.

Just let it go...let it go. You can't fight city hall. It is what it is and it will take care of itself. I've seen it in my own experience here. The Ambassador title, as you know, doesn't mean a whole lot, though there will always be folks that live up to it, some will not.

I fixed the bullying and other rubbish I was going through on here, by being less involved. Time took care of the rest of it. I simply stopped coming on here. The baddies disappeared but unfortunately, so did many of the people I've come to love - now gone. The meanies are gone now, but I'm still here, and so are you. There may be other undesirables (and I've met one or two since) but of any others, I know not. Today I'm a stranger on here, known by only a very small handful of people like yourself. I often get "Welcome to WA!" and I sometimes tell them "Well, I've been here for six years."

I'm not saying handling it the way I did would be a good thing for you to do, for only you know what's good for you. I'm still here. I love Wealthy Affiliate and think it is awesome. I hope I'm being encouraging to you. You've helped me tremendously through hard times I was going through during the early years of my membership here. I really appreciate you and the fact that you are here.

Fellow WAU member,

Daniel Euergetes
Reply
ThomasPaul Premium Plus
Hi Daniel,

Yes, you are being encouraging. I remember you going through some really rough times. I didn't know that at the same time WA Ambassadors were giving you an equally rough time which is really a shame.

I wish I had known, I would have tried to deflect some of that for you. My personal belief is that we should be trying to help every member succeed and give them support, not tear them down.

I know there are going to be disagreements, especially when rules can be interpreted many ways and they are written vaguely most likely to encourage interaction among the community.

I definitely think everyone going around pointing out every instance of someone breaking the rules wouldn't create a very good atmosphere. However, I do think a gentle nudge to people directing them at acceptable posting guidelines every once in a while is a good thing, especially when they repeatedly break rules or are breaking more than one rule in a single post.

99% of the stuff I see that goes against the SPAM is a No-No post I let slide because I think it creates more harm to the community to point it out than the actual content itself. I just wish WA Ambassadors took their position seriously enough to be informed of and a champion of those rules contained within the Spam is a No-No post and follow them, rather than be unaware of them or worse just ignore them.

I do remember your brother being a member here for a while, although I can't remember when or for how long. That really is a shame that a WA Ambassador made fun of him and he subsequently quit because of it.

It was good to hear from you. :)
Reply
Boothe Premium
I definitely feel like there are issues with the ambassador system and that a lot of top WAers don't bring high quality content and lots of value to the community.

I don't know who you are talking about specifically but you can be be sure he isn't the only one who is gaming the system just for a high rank which means very little.

The good thing is that WA is constantly working to improve the system and I bet they will eventually address it. For now, though, I think they have higher priorities.
Reply
ThomasPaul Premium Plus
Thank you for your comment.

Personally, I'm not too concerned with people trying to game the system.

I'm concerned with people(especially high profile people such as Ambassadors and people with high rank) treating people with respect and not personally attacking people who have a different opinion.

It would also be nice if the WA Ambassadors led by example and followed the rules. The most annoying violation to me is when WA Ambassadors have image signatures at the end of their blog posts or training. There's no gray area when you violate that rule.
Reply
Boothe Premium
Yeah, I definitely see where you're coming from. I finally found and read all the drama.

I somewhat disagree with your original point about the "religious" post (concerning rule 15), but I do agree with you on everything else (including violation of rules #8 and #16) . Some of those comments made were quite out of bounds.

Unfortunately the blogging rules are rarely enforced because they often go unreported and I'm not sure they are even looked over sometimes. Most user's aren't even aware of the rules.

Oh, well. I think it will all blow over within a few days. :/
Reply
ThomasPaul Premium Plus
I definitely respect your opinion. I think what bothered me the most was not that they disagreed with me, but the fact that they didn't want to have a civil discussion about it.
Reply
Top