About masirois
Rank 9181
872 followers Joined July 2013
Hi there. My name is Marcel. I joined WA in July 2013, trying to figure out all of this working online business. This is my

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I'm taking on my first client! I feel good about the pricing structure, in terms of requirements, third party integrations costs, etc. But my hourly rate is where I'm struggling. I

IMO you need eyes wide open...if the client has content, pictures, and videos, and they are able to do the social media side of things, then you will a) find it much more straightforward to get the content up there, and b) they will most likely make a success of the ongoing marketing if they are social and do social media...

Be clear about how many iterations/revisions you will offer- if what you offer up meets their specifications...If not you run the risk of falling foul of their indecision, or the dreaded "feature creep". Bag yourself a proof reader too, just for you- you won't see much as you will have your nose pressed to the glass.

In the worst case scenario if they can't get bring themselves to sign it off, when you have done all you can....then ensure that the balance is payable by a certain date after the final proposal...whether or not they progress things- if you see what I mean.

That said they might be completely lovely and you might all live happily ever after...cars have air bags so we don't have to use them....

The most important feature of the relationship is communication and as things start, so they tend to continue and finish..;Andy

Awesome advice Andy! I completely agree about expectations of how many versions I'll offer up based on the agreed quote, and about "x" is payable at certain point whether go or no go. Invested time is just that. And we hope the air bag sits snug in it's container :)

Thanks! ~ Marcel

I agree that 250 would be fine for the first time, I wish you success.

When I started in the beginning I charged £300 for a website including 5 pages and and 2 hours Skype tutorials how to use the site and market it. Then you can offer bonuses for a monthly fee articles,videos etc...

That way you can get some residual income as well not forgetting hosting of course..

Since this is your first time, I would charge $250 flat rate. You can increase it from there as you are successful.

Since web design is international biz, so there are price war among a lot of competitor from around the world.

Do you have a sell page? Charge what you feel the going rate is and add a first job discount would be my way of doing it.

I'm hardly an expert freelancer, but having read around and from the top of my head, you need to work out how much you need this month for your essential bills. Then work out how much extra you need to live a half decent life (you need to pay yourself). Tot all that up and divide by the number of hours you see yourself working in a month and there's your hourly rate.

Then again, another important question is: how often do you get the work? If you only get, say, one job per month, then a flat fee that covers all your expenses plus extras for that month is also a good starting point.

It's not as simple as it sounds though. I've found that pricing your work can be difficult. Charge too much and the client might look elsewhere. Too little and you're shortchanging yourself.

That said, never EVER offer a discount, even if the client ask for one. Add value instead.

I've included links to a couple of videos from a guy named Derek Halpern who gives advice on how to use psychology to benefit your business. I've not used any of his advice in my own freelancing endeavours, but then I only do what I do on and off.

http://socialtriggers.com/why-you-should-never-discount/

You might also find this helpful - it shows you how to get your potential customers to see the value in what you do.

http://socialtriggers.com/raise-prices/

And also this:

http://socialtriggers.com/i-spent-310-on-a-mens-haircut-and-i-was-surprised-about-what-i-learned-about-selling/

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the links. I'll definitely check them out.

Since it's my first client, I really don't have a consistency of "how often." Right now I'm just hoping for more than one :)

Thanks so much for these links; I've been in and out all day, but when I can I listen to his vids or read his pdf's......great links, Ken, thanks again!

No problem, Sheila.

Maricel, you are going to really like his videos; I've gotten addicted to them already....;)

Ken and Sheila, You both score for urging me to check out Derek Halpern. Great recommendation! Thanks so much :)

How did you get on with your negotiations? Did you figure out a good hourly rate that you were both happy with?

Actually I decided against hourly and quoted a price for the job. I used a medium range price based on some different quotes i got. I got a really useful comparison quote that showed the price ranges I should expect from a professional firm, a freelancer, and an outsourced delivery. That was the most helpful one, and it confirmed that the number I had in my head was in the right range.

Anyway they accepted my quote :)

Nice one.

I do this as well, so I looked online and was amazed
They are charging $2500.0 for a ten page WordPress site so I charged about $1000.0 for a 10 page site, but did not do any hourly rate, just a fixed price, but I sent the client a contract for him to approve before we went ahead
Forget minimum wage web designers are charging $120.0 an hour or $750.0 per day
Hope this helps

Barry

Thanks Barry. I appreciate your feedback!

Well. I think you are a professional. As such if you consider a service industry like for instance a plumber. Hourly rate may be around 60 dollars an hour, electrician may be 60 to 90 dollars an hour. Attorney of course will be around 300 dollars an hour. Starting food industry around minimum wage plus. I would think at least somewhere around 30 to 40 dollars may be moderate, but as you grow in popularity you will be more experienced and want to consider raising your rate. I don't know. I am a retired electrician and will normally charge 50 dollars for a service call and 90 dollars an hour. It will very. Don't know if this helps but Good Luck...........Frank

That's a very reasonable way to think of it. I want to be able to use this as a benchmark for future jobs too, so I want to find the right rate to set the bar, and incrementally move it up.

Thanks for your thoughts Frank!

I wish I had moved to America instead of packing in being an electrician! You're lucky if you can get the UK equivalent of $20 to $30 an hour over here, such is the problem with cowboy tradesmen!

All I can say is don't sell yourself short, it's THE main reason why many startup businesses fail, they simply do not charge enough. Think professional rates, not modest rates. If you get a reputation for being too cheap you will find it very hard to break later on.

Thanks Gary. I definitely don't want to sell myself short, and want to make sure my price reflects my confidence in my ability and the value I can bring.

Hi - it depends on where you are in the world.

£10 could be a LOT or next to nothing, depending on your circumstances.

I'm in the UK - and the minimum wage is around £6.70 per hour I believe. So you could use whatever the minimum wage is where you are - as a starting point.

When you were the HR Manager - what was your hourly equivalent rate (I'm not asking you to answer that here :) ) - did that give you a comfortable life-style? If so, aim for about the same.

What to remember is - if you are doing this as a business, then you are helping other businesses achieve their goals, by creating a web presence for them.

They will pay whatever the going rate is in your area (as they will for any other supplier, and as they will charge consumers for their products or services).

So if the going rate is $50 or $100 - it's probably next to nothing compared to the benefit you will add to their business by creating their website.

You could google "web design in... [your state]" and see what others in the area are charging.

Don't try and be cheap though, just to get the work - sometimes a higher price than others, may be more attractive to some customers who will have the perception you get what you pay for - so will discount the cheapest prices from the start.

Plus you want to know you are earning a good income - that will help you ride out any challenges you may come across as you build their site.

I hope this helps?

All the best, Mark

Thanks Mark! That's all excellent advice. I think considering the minimum wage and then bumping it up a bit might be the way to start.

I tried going online and searching for pricing models, and they're all over the place. From $500 - $10,000. In a way, I'm glad I'm asking this question as the person charging, not as the client. If you don't know what is a fair price, you could get even more confused with some of the estimates out there!

And in terms of the benefit of how this will help their business, I'm also adding a little price bump in my rate for my honest recommendations. Meaning, I know I'm not going to recommend a lot things they don't need (I'm pretty familiar with their business and client market), so I add a little extra value by being able to advise them about where to spend a little extra and where to save their money.

Hopefully somewhere in there I'll find a good balance!

Thanks again, this is really helpful!

Hi - sorry, I didn't mean to imply you charge just a bit more than minimum wage :)

Another piece of advice - get as detailed a spec of what they want as you can. I've spent a lot of time "assuming" I knew what the client wanted, and been really excited to show them - then when I do they don't like it. Time, and money wasted.

The last one I did, we sat down for a while, and discussed everything. I went away and did a rough draft - and then sat with them again for a while - it was perfect, exactly what they wanted!

Also - I would charge for the initial work - and then charge a monthly hosting and maintenance fee (1 hour of work included in the monthly fee). that way you really are setting up a good recurring income - plus they get a web designer who's there - they don't then have to find someone else "in-house" to manage it ongoing.

Cheers, Mark

Yes, you need to be VERY careful not to just charge a little over minimum wage. I have been self-employed for over 25 years and I promise you now, whatever you charge you will realise later on that it is too little.

As for the going rate, it's almost impossible as rates can vary so much. I searched for a local web designer just before I found WA (oh how I wish I had found it a couple of weeks earlier!) and accepted a quote for £900, around $1300-$1400.

Initially I was happy with the work but in 8 weeks she did hardly anything and 9 months on I realised that all she had actually done is reconfigure my theme a little and add a few elements, all of which I have since scrapped anyway. I had already paid £700 but I sacked her, not because I wasn't happy with what had been done but because it was taking far too long.

I know now that I could have done everything she had done and more inside a day. However, my point is I was willing at the time to pay £900 for it and that's the important thing, find out what clients are willing to pay but make sure the rate you are earning is a rate that is going to get you further on in life because if it isn't you're wasting your time. I wouldn't bother with starter rates, just a professional rate for the job.

Get some quotes from other design agencies and base your around theirs. Then you can always go a little cheaper and say "such-and-such design agency are charging $xxxx". Do not ever sell yourself short.

Yeah, the pricing model is hard to figure when you look at what's being asked within the market. The range is huge. But it is a professional job, not basic labor, so no I'm not going with minimum wage (as in state minimum). I was thinking more like starting wage in a professional role.

I'm also not a great negotiator, so whatever I decide, I want to be able to stand firm that's my rate. Being able to substantiate it by knowing what others are charging will help a lot, considering I'm really trying to be fair, and not over-hype myself.

See more comments

Price estimate thoughts for designing a website?

Price estimate thoughts for designing a website?

asked in
Everything Wordpress
Updated

I'm taking on my first client! I feel good about the pricing structure, in terms of requirements, third party integrations costs, etc. But my hourly rate is where I'm struggling. I

IMO you need eyes wide open...if the client has content, pictures, and videos, and they are able to do the social media side of things, then you will a) find it much more straightforward to get the content up there, and b) they will most likely make a success of the ongoing marketing if they are social and do social media...

Be clear about how many iterations/revisions you will offer- if what you offer up meets their specifications...If not you run the risk of falling foul of their indecision, or the dreaded "feature creep". Bag yourself a proof reader too, just for you- you won't see much as you will have your nose pressed to the glass.

In the worst case scenario if they can't get bring themselves to sign it off, when you have done all you can....then ensure that the balance is payable by a certain date after the final proposal...whether or not they progress things- if you see what I mean.

That said they might be completely lovely and you might all live happily ever after...cars have air bags so we don't have to use them....

The most important feature of the relationship is communication and as things start, so they tend to continue and finish..;Andy

Awesome advice Andy! I completely agree about expectations of how many versions I'll offer up based on the agreed quote, and about "x" is payable at certain point whether go or no go. Invested time is just that. And we hope the air bag sits snug in it's container :)

Thanks! ~ Marcel

I agree that 250 would be fine for the first time, I wish you success.

When I started in the beginning I charged £300 for a website including 5 pages and and 2 hours Skype tutorials how to use the site and market it. Then you can offer bonuses for a monthly fee articles,videos etc...

That way you can get some residual income as well not forgetting hosting of course..

Since this is your first time, I would charge $250 flat rate. You can increase it from there as you are successful.

Since web design is international biz, so there are price war among a lot of competitor from around the world.

Do you have a sell page? Charge what you feel the going rate is and add a first job discount would be my way of doing it.

I'm hardly an expert freelancer, but having read around and from the top of my head, you need to work out how much you need this month for your essential bills. Then work out how much extra you need to live a half decent life (you need to pay yourself). Tot all that up and divide by the number of hours you see yourself working in a month and there's your hourly rate.

Then again, another important question is: how often do you get the work? If you only get, say, one job per month, then a flat fee that covers all your expenses plus extras for that month is also a good starting point.

It's not as simple as it sounds though. I've found that pricing your work can be difficult. Charge too much and the client might look elsewhere. Too little and you're shortchanging yourself.

That said, never EVER offer a discount, even if the client ask for one. Add value instead.

I've included links to a couple of videos from a guy named Derek Halpern who gives advice on how to use psychology to benefit your business. I've not used any of his advice in my own freelancing endeavours, but then I only do what I do on and off.

http://socialtriggers.com/why-you-should-never-discount/

You might also find this helpful - it shows you how to get your potential customers to see the value in what you do.

http://socialtriggers.com/raise-prices/

And also this:

http://socialtriggers.com/i-spent-310-on-a-mens-haircut-and-i-was-surprised-about-what-i-learned-about-selling/

Hope this helps.

Thanks for the links. I'll definitely check them out.

Since it's my first client, I really don't have a consistency of "how often." Right now I'm just hoping for more than one :)

Thanks so much for these links; I've been in and out all day, but when I can I listen to his vids or read his pdf's......great links, Ken, thanks again!

No problem, Sheila.

Maricel, you are going to really like his videos; I've gotten addicted to them already....;)

Ken and Sheila, You both score for urging me to check out Derek Halpern. Great recommendation! Thanks so much :)

How did you get on with your negotiations? Did you figure out a good hourly rate that you were both happy with?

Actually I decided against hourly and quoted a price for the job. I used a medium range price based on some different quotes i got. I got a really useful comparison quote that showed the price ranges I should expect from a professional firm, a freelancer, and an outsourced delivery. That was the most helpful one, and it confirmed that the number I had in my head was in the right range.

Anyway they accepted my quote :)

Nice one.

I do this as well, so I looked online and was amazed
They are charging $2500.0 for a ten page WordPress site so I charged about $1000.0 for a 10 page site, but did not do any hourly rate, just a fixed price, but I sent the client a contract for him to approve before we went ahead
Forget minimum wage web designers are charging $120.0 an hour or $750.0 per day
Hope this helps

Barry

Thanks Barry. I appreciate your feedback!

Well. I think you are a professional. As such if you consider a service industry like for instance a plumber. Hourly rate may be around 60 dollars an hour, electrician may be 60 to 90 dollars an hour. Attorney of course will be around 300 dollars an hour. Starting food industry around minimum wage plus. I would think at least somewhere around 30 to 40 dollars may be moderate, but as you grow in popularity you will be more experienced and want to consider raising your rate. I don't know. I am a retired electrician and will normally charge 50 dollars for a service call and 90 dollars an hour. It will very. Don't know if this helps but Good Luck...........Frank

That's a very reasonable way to think of it. I want to be able to use this as a benchmark for future jobs too, so I want to find the right rate to set the bar, and incrementally move it up.

Thanks for your thoughts Frank!

I wish I had moved to America instead of packing in being an electrician! You're lucky if you can get the UK equivalent of $20 to $30 an hour over here, such is the problem with cowboy tradesmen!

All I can say is don't sell yourself short, it's THE main reason why many startup businesses fail, they simply do not charge enough. Think professional rates, not modest rates. If you get a reputation for being too cheap you will find it very hard to break later on.

Thanks Gary. I definitely don't want to sell myself short, and want to make sure my price reflects my confidence in my ability and the value I can bring.

Hi - it depends on where you are in the world.

£10 could be a LOT or next to nothing, depending on your circumstances.

I'm in the UK - and the minimum wage is around £6.70 per hour I believe. So you could use whatever the minimum wage is where you are - as a starting point.

When you were the HR Manager - what was your hourly equivalent rate (I'm not asking you to answer that here :) ) - did that give you a comfortable life-style? If so, aim for about the same.

What to remember is - if you are doing this as a business, then you are helping other businesses achieve their goals, by creating a web presence for them.

They will pay whatever the going rate is in your area (as they will for any other supplier, and as they will charge consumers for their products or services).

So if the going rate is $50 or $100 - it's probably next to nothing compared to the benefit you will add to their business by creating their website.

You could google "web design in... [your state]" and see what others in the area are charging.

Don't try and be cheap though, just to get the work - sometimes a higher price than others, may be more attractive to some customers who will have the perception you get what you pay for - so will discount the cheapest prices from the start.

Plus you want to know you are earning a good income - that will help you ride out any challenges you may come across as you build their site.

I hope this helps?

All the best, Mark

Thanks Mark! That's all excellent advice. I think considering the minimum wage and then bumping it up a bit might be the way to start.

I tried going online and searching for pricing models, and they're all over the place. From $500 - $10,000. In a way, I'm glad I'm asking this question as the person charging, not as the client. If you don't know what is a fair price, you could get even more confused with some of the estimates out there!

And in terms of the benefit of how this will help their business, I'm also adding a little price bump in my rate for my honest recommendations. Meaning, I know I'm not going to recommend a lot things they don't need (I'm pretty familiar with their business and client market), so I add a little extra value by being able to advise them about where to spend a little extra and where to save their money.

Hopefully somewhere in there I'll find a good balance!

Thanks again, this is really helpful!

Hi - sorry, I didn't mean to imply you charge just a bit more than minimum wage :)

Another piece of advice - get as detailed a spec of what they want as you can. I've spent a lot of time "assuming" I knew what the client wanted, and been really excited to show them - then when I do they don't like it. Time, and money wasted.

The last one I did, we sat down for a while, and discussed everything. I went away and did a rough draft - and then sat with them again for a while - it was perfect, exactly what they wanted!

Also - I would charge for the initial work - and then charge a monthly hosting and maintenance fee (1 hour of work included in the monthly fee). that way you really are setting up a good recurring income - plus they get a web designer who's there - they don't then have to find someone else "in-house" to manage it ongoing.

Cheers, Mark

Yes, you need to be VERY careful not to just charge a little over minimum wage. I have been self-employed for over 25 years and I promise you now, whatever you charge you will realise later on that it is too little.

As for the going rate, it's almost impossible as rates can vary so much. I searched for a local web designer just before I found WA (oh how I wish I had found it a couple of weeks earlier!) and accepted a quote for £900, around $1300-$1400.

Initially I was happy with the work but in 8 weeks she did hardly anything and 9 months on I realised that all she had actually done is reconfigure my theme a little and add a few elements, all of which I have since scrapped anyway. I had already paid £700 but I sacked her, not because I wasn't happy with what had been done but because it was taking far too long.

I know now that I could have done everything she had done and more inside a day. However, my point is I was willing at the time to pay £900 for it and that's the important thing, find out what clients are willing to pay but make sure the rate you are earning is a rate that is going to get you further on in life because if it isn't you're wasting your time. I wouldn't bother with starter rates, just a professional rate for the job.

Get some quotes from other design agencies and base your around theirs. Then you can always go a little cheaper and say "such-and-such design agency are charging $xxxx". Do not ever sell yourself short.

Yeah, the pricing model is hard to figure when you look at what's being asked within the market. The range is huge. But it is a professional job, not basic labor, so no I'm not going with minimum wage (as in state minimum). I was thinking more like starting wage in a professional role.

I'm also not a great negotiator, so whatever I decide, I want to be able to stand firm that's my rate. Being able to substantiate it by knowing what others are charging will help a lot, considering I'm really trying to be fair, and not over-hype myself.

See more comments

Login
Create Your Free Wealthy Affiliate Account Today!
icon
4-Steps to Success Class
icon
One Profit Ready Website
icon
Market Research & Analysis Tools
icon
Millionaire Mentorship
icon
Core “Business Start Up” Training