Wealthy Affiliate's Biggest Problem: The ONE Thing I Don't Like

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Hey everyone.

Been a while since I created a blog post but today I thought it was time I addressed an issue that is probably the biggest reason a lot of people dislike Wealthy Affiliate.

I came across these complaints when I was looking for products to review from scam.com and happened to run a search for 'Wealthy Affiliate'

These were the kind of 'interesting' threads I came across:

https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?116422-The-Wealthy-Affil...

https://www.scam.com/showthread.php?115627-Are-all-Affiliate...

The takeaway seems to be that a lot of people have issues with this:

Inexperienced marketers creating highly negative reviews of programs they haven't tried in order to promote Wealthy Affiliate.

When a new member joins Wealthy Affiliate they may decide to start with the Bootcamp training.

The chances are that the content they use for their site will be 80% product reviews. Of these reviews, 80% will probably be products that they haven't tried.

This isn't neccesarily a bad thing in itself. The problem is that of these reviews, a large chunk of them will be labeled 'scams' and the reviewer will go on to promote Wealthy Affiliate as a better alternative.

Now what if one of these products WASN'T a scam?

Do you think it is unethical to be taking away someone's income by writing negative reviews about their product WITHOUT even trying it, all in order to increase your own income?

Unfortunately, I can't see a clear cut solution. Obviously I'm not suggesting you buy into every product before you review it because most of them probably will be scams, and there's no point wasting your money.

One thing that might help, and something that I advocate, is for new members to always go through the entrepenuer certification BEFORE bootcamp.

That way, they aren't creating an 'empty' WA review and have genuine experience to pull from and back up what they are saying.

Any thoughts?

PS. If I've got anything majorly wrong, don't be afraid to correct me!

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We don't promote or support the idea of creating inherently negative reviews. Like any industry there are the "good" and the "bad" and within the make money world, there are a lot of scammers.

These same companies that have cried "fake reviews" have succumb to the FTC because they actually were scams ripping people off.

So this argument is unwarranted and we don't OWN any affiliate. You will find that many affiliates are promoting many different quality products in this space, with lots of positive reviews on their websites, some with only positive reviews, and most with very legitimate warnings about products/services in the industry that are taking advantage of folks.

This is the same argument as "fake news". People that don't like people revealing what their service is and is doing to people immediately cry foul, instead of refuting the actual claims against them.

We have and always will promote ethical, truthful and a honest approach to marketing. If someone feels that the industry should be warned about a scam, then that is their prerogative and certainly should not be reprimanded without warrant.

Thanks for jumping in Kyle.

I completely get that YOU don't promote or support that idea, but it can't be helped that that is what some members do as a result.

That is not your fault; this article is more for them than you.

Have you ever considered making the bootcamp course only accessible to members who have completed a certain amount of training, such as up to say level 3 in certification?

I appreciate all the hard work you do behind the scenes to keep WA ethical and honest. Little things like taking the time to leave this comment really go a long way to reinforce that.

Out of interest, did you see this article by Kaju: He explains what I'm trying to say in a much better way. Just something to consider (although I'm sure you've spent plenty of time thinking about it already).

The ethical approach of WA is one of the reasons I love learning here and promote the platform happily.

I will be blogging about this. Because the reality is that there are going to be some level of "quality" differences in terms of content within any niche, not just reviews. If you take an article like:

how to properly shoot a basketball

And you have 100 people write about the topic, you are likely going to get 100 different variants of the same thing.

Same with reviews. If you have a product that has been deemed a scam by 20-30 independent writers and researchers, there is a good chance they have come to that conclusion for a reason. The same with positive reviews.

My bigger argument, is those that are "tricking" people with positive reviews about a product that is scamming people. That is much bigger problem in the industry and there is not a day that goes by where people are not losing $10,000's.

I have written several negative reviews over the years, but I do so with a purpose of protecting consumers. MANY of these have been taken out by the FTC or dissolved since because they were ruining people's lives with their unscrupulous ways.

Bootcamp is not about creating reviews, it is about creating an authority website. A review may be part of this, and typically is as you build out an authority website in any niche, whether this is about beauty, or dogs and cats, or about something related to make money.

There are going to be varying qualities of products in any niche. People are taught to be ethical, to do their due diligence (with any type of article), and to write in their own words.

Thanks Kyle. Great breakdown here.

Thanks for highlighting that point to me.

So what you're saying is that:

It's more important to solve the problem of FALSE POSITIVE reviews than poorly put together false negatives?

I hadn't considered that there is a flip-side to creating an inaccurate negative product review, which is creating a dishonest positive review to generate sales.

At least in false negatives, customers don't LOSE actual money.

But what about biased reviews? If 20 or 30 people are all saying how good a certain product is only because that product has an affiliate program; is that verifiable?

Yes, that is the case. The case is that there are many companies yelling "fake reviews" the same as many people yell "fake news". It has been acceptable practice instead of actually facing the arguments head on and when a company/person hears something that they don't like (and is a truth about them), the acceptable approach is to say it's fake. That is not what is ACTUALLY acceptable though, because that doesn't change fact or the reality.

I am a proponent of great products/services, and we use many within our businesses, affiliates also recommend many in a very positive manner in our industry.

I would argue, that there are far MORE false positives, than false negatives. I have yet to really see a "false negative", without actual proof. It is always companies that are trying to shelter others from the truth that yell this and they rely on "muffled" free speech in order to continue scamming people.

Biased reviews are something that can happen sure, when you use and love something though, you naturally endorse it. I think this is normal in absolutely every circumstance in our lives, including people bias.

And if 20 to 30 people are saying something is positive without explaining the "features" of the program, then yes it is a false positive. If they are actually revealing "detailed" information about what the product/service is, then they are real. These are pretty easy to see through.

I will be much more aware for the future to ignore these kind of claims then.

Fight or flight I imagine, more people find it easier to attack back rather than focusing on what they could do to improve.

I guess there can be incentives either way; you could right a false positive because there is an exciting affiliate program for it that promises you huge payouts, or you could write a false negative in order to 'bait and switch' someone to a different product you're affiliated with.

You make some great points. I think this is the kind of information more people need to hear so I will be keeping an eye out for that blog post you mentioned.

There is another culprit attempting to spread this idea, and all of their reviews are from past customers that don't like the service they are running.

So they blame us, for their past customers speaking out, and their low quality service. This all started with a company trying to create this idea that we are responsible for "fake reviews", turns out they were taken out by the FTC for scamming people, as people had indicated they were.

A strange world we live in where calling something "fake" without actually having to argue why it is fake is a thing.

Not in my world. I will continue to endorse the idea of using facts, and endorse the idea of ethical marketing in all of the training here. That is something that we will sustain as we do have a large responsibility being the leaders in the affiliate marketing industry.

I know you aren't dropping any names but I was curious:

Does Solo Build It come under this category? I know they are one of the most outspoken 'fake reviews' sites. They seem to have gone to HUGE efforts to create a very negative post about WA.

You are indeed the industry leaders and I think that is one of the reasons for these kinds of competition. People see Wealthy Affiliate leaving them in the dust and they will do anything to claw back some distance.

Yes, certainly one of them. They tried to do the same and slander Wordpress a few years back, without much success.

Hi Kyle, that's a great point about false positive reviews. I've seen some comment threads out there from affiliate marketers who push products mainly from places like JVZoo, Clickbank etc. (I'm sure you know the crowd) who are absolutely bashing WA for being so unethical...

Meanwhile..., my inbox is bombarded daily by these same people trying to sell me the next get rich quick push-button solution. It's crazy... they prey on people with shiny object syndrome giving great reviews for products they know won't live up to their claims... but happy to take people's money.

I should also add that like WA... it's not JVZoo or Clickbank to blame, but people who are using their platforms to promote everything under the sun.

Hi, Kyle, Hi, Benjamin.

I do not mean to 'Butt In,' into this great dialogue, but(lol),
does this conversation also have something to do with this:
http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/sc/17/18/2017BCSC1873.htm

If so, then we all have to learn to "read the white on the black."

I personally take everything I am exposed to on the net with not just a grain of salt but kilos of it. Just because someone has posted a court document (poorly edited if I may say) that it means it is what it is. You can get the real one, but you have to dig much deeper than a simple google search.

The use of negative reviews upon others to obtain personal goals is nothing new in the World of Internet Marketing. Actually it is quite laughable, but it is still a tactic that works and many people use it and what is worse is that many people fall for it.

In my two plus years here at WA, the most important thing that I have learned so far is that success is a long term progression built on the small steps learned previously. The second most important thing that I have learned here is that success means different things to different people and in fact success is a journey.I

It is beyond my comprehension why anyone would want to 'sucker' someone into a program for a couple of months to make a few pennies.

The only successful Internet Entrepreneurs (there are many) that I have seen so far are very, very transparent and when they say that they speak/write with honesty and integrity it is exemplified through their storefronts. It's not hard to weed out the real from the false.

I think that the false negatives and even the false positives are not going to completely go away. Butt(lol), we all need to be somewhat more aware of slimy tactics being used by a very small few and try to avoid using them completely.

That of course is only accomplished through education, and I am almost certain that it will be addressed for further discussion here on this Open Education Platform.

Beyond that, it is my personal opinion that this subject is for the most part moot and probably does not deserve the attention that it may get.

Thank you for allowing me to 'butt' in.

Kindest regards from Canada,

Paul.

We have definitely spent the last several years defending the internet, and in light of the link you sent, we are in brilliant shape here as there have been some really unfounded decisions made along the way that we are in the process of rectifying.

One thing I have always been taught is that the truth shall prevail. This will be another instance of this, and this is the exact approach we evoke within the training and the community here at WA.

I hope you are doing well!

I'm completely out of my depth with the link you shared, would you mind expanding on that?

It is a court case that has been ongoing, he wont' be able to accurately explain the substance of it. We will provide folks with more details when it is the right time to do so (in the coming months).

It leads into what I was talking about, people protecting consumers, a company trying to "muffle" free speech so they can continue taking advantage of the consumers with their misleading claims, and then FTC coming in to deal with those scamming.

This happens very frequently, but unfortunately in some circumstances the muffled speech leads to MANY more people getting ripped off than would have if more accurate and factual reviews existed about the product.

But weren't you guys the defendants in this case? Looks like from what I was reading that the decisions were going against you.

I also saw that it was related to MOBE, who have apparently been shut down by the FTC recently.

Why are you guys on the backfoot against the proven scammers? Seems the wrong way around, unless I misread.
Sorry if that question doesn't make sense.

That is exactly what I was trying to get across, Kyle and as I mentioned in my comment prior, it is all about 'Truth.'

That particular link posted on the internet was in my opinion, posted by a fool to fool others into believing that WA is foolish.

"Fools will only prosper where fools hang out together" - Paul Mindra.

The Wealthy Affiliate Open Education Project is on top of its playing field and is leaving all the competition behind.

Let me share some words from the site I am working on:

“There are two types of people in this World who will never be a success. People who cannot follow directions and people who can ONLY follow directions.” I think this quote came from a distinguished member here at WA.

While the first part of the quote is understandable, the second makes you think a bit. People who can ONLY follow directions are merely ‘Cogs’ in a machine. Success is unlikely because someone else is always going to be calling the shots. Most people with regular types of jobs fall into this category.

Nothing wrong with that (I had one for 25 of 35 years where I worked for others). The bottom line is, we have to put food on the table, clothes on our backs, and a roof over our heads. More simply put, we have to pay the bills, on time and every time.

But, take those same people in the ‘Cog,’ add creativity and education to their direction and the results will become self directed and determined. Success becomes inevitable.

Unfortunately, Kyle, people want to jump ahead of the learning curve and think that they can reinvent the wheel which you and Carson have given to us unconditionally.

It is OK, as this is a part of how different people work in their own different ways. Unfortunately you should not be the 'Brundt' of their actions.

As I said earlier, the subject is moot unless someone can bring 'real' evidence to the contrary regarding the link.

Thank you for hoping that I am doing well. Hell, yes! I am.

I am doing fantastic.

In year one, I created a basic 'information site' on Scams in the Cryptocurrency markets that resulted in over two thousand followers and growing.

Now, did I bombard them with my WA Link? Hell No. I nurture our relationships and teach them about the importance of building financial resilience.

In year two, I have been developing my WA affiliate site. It is far from complete, but you know what, when I think I am ready, I already have an audience of over 2,000 that will open their email.

These are the things that I have learned from you and the platform here that are leading me into my four year business plan for success and dominance online.

Because you have one of the most successful business models in your given industry, you will always have 'knuckleheads' trying to take you down.

As I said earlier, their attempts are actually 'moot' because they have zero substance and only innuendo behind their driving force.

Keep up the great work.
Kudos and great amounts of gratitude with your most recent achievement: SSL Certificates for Siterubix.

I'm not sure if people here understand the implication of this, but it is huge.

Thank you Kyle, Thank you Carson...Thank you Wealthy Affiliate team.

Kindest regards and respect from Canada,

Paul.



Hi, Benjamin.
Paul here from across the water.
You wrote a post kind of on 'false negatives' and false positives.'
The conversation got quite heated.
Read further down your post for an expansion on that link.

Thank you,
Paul.

The conversation got heated?
News to me :)
Further down my own post? I don't understand, sorry.

Hi Benjamin.
No need to be sorry.
The part of your post that has this link to it that I offered.

http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/jdb-txt/sc/17/18/2017BCSC1873.htm

In my opinion, the subject is moot.

Paul.

Thank you for your honesty. I too agree with you. I have not gone far with Bootcamp lessons, but rather built out two niche websites in the entrepenuer certification lessons instead. I am not comfortable in 'pretending' to be an authority on building a website when I am not. I have seen many do just that with their referral WA websites, when they are clearly not experienced at all.

After building out what I think are 2 pretty good websites, I still would not be comfortable in creating a referral WA website, telling people how successful they will be. I am still not successful with my two, even though everyone who has seen them, tells me how great they are.

I picked a Dog niche with my first (1 1/2 years ago), and that was not the best choice. It's a niche that is crowded! I picked an herbal based niche for my second (Jan 2018) and that one is actually creating some commisions for me but nothing to really brag about yet.

If or when, either of those websites generate enough commissions so I can call them an income, only then would I be comfortable in creating a WA referral website, so I can tell people, and show people that YES, I am an authority now. Just my two cents...

I agree with your first point.

However I don't think you need to wait to be super successful before referring people to WA.

For example, even though you might not be an authority, you might have articles that have wound up on the first page of Google.

Or you might have made a few genuine sales.

Both of these are things you can mention and say how they wouldn't have been possible without WA.

For me, I talk about the fact that as a college student I am managing to outrank huge business in Google.

I'm not making much money yet, but that doesn't take away from the above achievement that has only been made possible through the excellent training at WA.

True enough :) I have not had articles that wound up on page one though. I finally made a 'genuine' sale on Amazon, a whole $1.28 LOL! I am not quite ready to brag about that yet :D

It doesn't matter what niche you are in, you are always going to be reviewing items that you haven't personally purchased.

For example, if my niche promoted riding lawn mowers, I couldn't go out there and personally purchase each and every model that I review and compare. But I would have to do plenty of research into the pros and cons of each mower in order to give a thorough evaluation for my readers.

The MMO niche is no different, you'd have to pay thousands and thousands of dollars in order to personally buy each program to try it out. But it's the research that you do to be sure that your opinion is based upon solid facts that will determine if you are writing an honest review.

I have bought several programs that I've reviewed as well as done reviews on ones I haven't purchased. I always disclose whether or not I've purchased it in my review, and then give my opinion based upon extensive research coupled with my own experiences.

There are a lot of people out there who don't like a negative review about a product they're selling, so they say that WA teaches people to bash other's products. That's simply not true! WA teaches you to compare products with what is offered at WA, which is a legitimate marketing technique that works because there's very little out there that compares with what WA offers.

I do agree that everyone should start a niche website and know what they're doing before promoting WA. I also agree that calling a program a scam is a serious thing and should be backed up with solid facts.

The fact is that there are scam programs out there that convince desperate people to open up their wallets to the tune of hundreds and thousands of dollars. A few years ago I was one of those people, and it was an extremely expensive lesson learned.

Thanks for starting this discussion, it's a good one!

Janelle

Thanks for this huge response!

I completely agree; as I mentioned in the original post it would be financially impossible (and stupid) to spend money on scam programs just so you can reassure people that they are scams.

However, what can we do to make sure genuine programs don't slip through the net and get labeled in with all the other scams?

It's a good point you make; maybe the reason everyone says WA is better is because Wealthy Affiliate IS better.

Thanks for your input.

Any genuine program will have plenty of facts to market everything they have to offer. If their program is a legitimate money-making opportunity, there will be many people actually making money from it and giving it positive reviews. (I will be one of them actively promoting it!) If they get any unwarranted negative reviews, there will be solid facts to show otherwise.

You can find plenty of negative reviews about Wealthy Affiliate if you look for them. Everyone should state their honest opinion, but there are a lot of facts to negate their points if these reviewers are just disgruntled former members.

It's no one's responsibility to make sure that WA or any other genuine program doesn't slip through the net and get labeled with all the other scams. Having a world class program where people succeed in making money online will ensure that it stands on it's own.

This is why I have never promoted WA. Do not have stomach for something ugly like that.

By the way, the percentages you have shown above are too optimistic.

You think they should be higher?

Most of those who write such reviews have never tried anything else, yet you will see them spitting on everything under the sky. So yes, about 100% is the true number. Have been using SiteComments for a couple of years and read hundreds of such scam reviews.

This is simply wrong and this has always been my own biggest issue with WA, discussed this many times in the past here.

Do you think there's a solution?

As I've said elsewhere on this thread it would be hugely unrealistic to imagine you should buy every program on the off chance that one WASN'T a scam.

Spending $1000 on a program just so you can say 'it is a scam' would not be the solution, so what is?

The solution is not promoting, not selling anything.

I write product reviews, outdoor stuff, far over 1000 reviews so far, but I have written only 2 negative reviews. I had to, I felt obliged to do so; one of them was sent to me for free to review, but I gave my negative opinion. Imagine, a water filter which I used to drink water outdoor and became sick. So this is the matter of responsibility.

How to write only positive reviews? Easy. I write about quality items most of the time, those that I would love to use outdoor myself. But I do not promote any of them, and I do not own most of them; this is where experience and research step in. I give my opinion instead of promoting, nothing is perfect so this is what I do, show what is great and what is less great. Will a visitor buy the tent A or the tent B is not important.

So you write reviews with no intent of converting them to sales?

Or did I misunderstand? What then is the point of writing the reviews (apart from generating traffic and providing useful content)?

You misunderstood. See my last sentence.

I read that but I was still unsure.
Are you saying that it doesn't matter which tent they buy, the fact is they are going to buy one?

Exactly.

Totally agreed.
I haven't ventured in the bootcamp yet since I think entrepreneur certification is quite important as a foundation before venturing further.

That's exactly right. You're doing it right.

Agreed... I was thinking along the same line but could not get around penning it. I'm only working on two sites myself and one is bootcamp. For my Bootcamp site I do review for Clickbank 2.0 and I do give them reasonable credit for being credible with their vendor of own/digital product aspect of training. Their affiliate training is however very limited comparing. Product reviews should not put down anyone's product because not all of them are scams.

I appreciate you taking the right approach! Thanks for your input.

First of all I do not think it is good to leave a link to an old thread like this where the newest info is from 2009 - WA has come a long way since. Some people might get second thoughts without looking at the dates.

When that is said, I personally think it is better to learn affiliate marketing first before promoting WA.

Also, Kyle is probably one of the most authentic online marketers I have seen. His and all the training focus on quality and on helping people.

I agree that you should not just call something a scam just to make a sale yourself, and when you are new, it can be very difficult to see what are scams and not: When that is said - there are A LOT of scams out there that just get upset for being called out and having review that reveals this outranking them.

I think people should be careful about calling something a scam, and I agree that some people that are members here might do that too fats just to make a sale. But a lot of the poor and dishonest promotion people do has nothing to do with WA. There are more than 1 million members here and the WA members overall use a lot more ethical and truthful methods than most other online marketers.

Just look at how many positive reviews you can find online from unethical marketers promoting crappy scam products to make money themselves. At least many WA members goes against these and give more truthful info.

But overall I agree with you that it is a relevant discussion and that we should not be so focused on making money ourselves that we say and do whatever to make it happen - and actually the ethical and honest approach from Kyle is one of the reasons I love the training here.

Mikael

Thanks for the awesome reply!

Good point- I hadn't realized how old those links are. But the problem is definitely still ongoing today!

I agree; I wish it was mandatory to AT LEAST finish a couple levels of certification before Bootcamp.

You're right. It's a tricky area; obviously you don't want to buy into a scam just to prove it's a scam, that's just a total waste of money. But there is a chance that you might get it wrong from time to time, which could be very harmful to your brand in the long run.

That's also true; a lot of the time it's them promoting their own products too.

Thanks for your input!

You make a very valid point

Thanks!

Great points B!! You are RIGHT!
I wrote a very compelling post about this last week. I'm surprised you haven't seen it already, it practically went viral.

It rings a bell now you mention it...

Still not seeing a viable solution though, other than dramatically scaling back the amount of product reviews we write.

Do you think a site could still generate huge income with a MINORITY focus on product reviews?

Because I don't think buying every scam just to tell people..it's a scam, will help.

I do not tell people it is a scam - I tell them my observations and how internet marketing in general works. I give them the pros and cons and the warning signs and then they can decide for themselves.

But it is a fine balance indeed.

Product reviews aren't the problem - dishonest and over-inflated ones that don't include responsible disclaimers and warning where they are warranted are. People can see right through disingenuous product reviews, they aren't stupid.

Good product reviews by ethical writers is a great thing. Read my article for more detail.

Sure, that’s fine...
The problem is that not everyone is as skilled at you! That might sound like a joke but it’s the truth. Some people lack the subtlety and instead think they need to hammer home that THIS IS A SCAM; they underestimate people’s ability to work thinfbs our forbidden themselves.

Good point:)

Out of interest, what do you think about Kyle's excellent input to this discussion?

I totally agree, I'm going thru the first program myself. It seems newbies like me should learn regular affiliate marketing first, to test the waters and learn, before jumping right into promoting making money online when they haven't even started making money online yet.

That's exactly right! Couldn't agree more.

Bootcamp is "regular" affiliate marketing, and it teaches the utmost and most ethical approach to affiliate marketing. By no means do we encourage any sort of "erroneous reviews" and certainly don't support untruthful content.

The problem is that many of these companies (one in particular) that cried "foul" and exclaimed "fake reivews" ended up being taken out by the FTC for defrauding people out of 100's of millions of dollars.

So those people writing these reviews, actually were saving people's lifelong savings in many cases. That should not be undermined by someone yelling fake news, without and adequate or any refute.

I'm sure you're the expert on this Kyle so I'll trust you know more on the issue than me.

I'm familiar with these 'fake reviews' claims by a few certain competitors and I'm glad you were able to resolve this.

The problem is that the bigger WA becomes, the harder competitors have to try to dissuade people from joining. And with WA growing hugely, this is a big problem.

I agree that "newbies" should learn regular affiliate marketing first.

From my 20+ years of doing this internet marketing thingy, the problem seems to be that many default to promoting a Make Money Online based website instead of focusing on a different niche. The MMO niche if full of scams plus many experienced marketers who eat newbies for lunch.

Chasing the money instead of focusing on a personal passion lessens a member's chances of success.

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