Reconnecting...
Becoming Inactive
Last Update: December 21, 2018
Since I first came here to Wealthy Affiliate, my motto has been to stay in and not give up. However as I get older, things in my life have been changing as well. I have also learnt more about myself than I have previously known or admitted.
One of these has to do with my writing and where it has gotten me to date.
There are a number of people on here who see my writing as "fantastic." Albeit I have not been able to make any new sales in the last three or more years. I put out some content during the earlier and mid parts of this year with the aid of the Super Affiliate Challenge, but from this effort, I have gotten two, possibly three invites through the entire year.
This isn't ineffectiveness of what is taught here. It is entirely on my end. I have been questioned about how my "business" has been going, for which I had nothing to say. After discussions about the viability of being involved in this, the criticism I have been unanimously getting is that I am putting money into something and at best, getting most of it back, if not, breaking even.
One time, in 2012, this almost took off for me but I have never been able to repeat that again. It is one of the reasons why I have staid in here so long. The work done thus far on my website has been deemed as, "untrustworthy." I lack the charisma needed to be able to do this work and have personality issues. This is what is making it extremely challenging for me to do this kind of work.
The hopes and dreams I had have faded away. I have gotten so I don't enjoy this anymore.
I re-iterate that at this point, I am unfit for this kind of work and this absolutely has nothing to do with Wealthy Affiliate in any way. The issues I have are outside the scope of Wealthy Affiliate.
Upon reading a letter I wrote to Wealthy Affiliate in 2008, my reasons to join were originally about the books I was writing at the time. Those books were never published and are now completely dated. They are works that will never see the light. However there is one more. This will take the rest of my life to do. It is very deep and requires a tremendous amount of research. My current website will probably be repurposed for this and the content there moved to a different domain more suitable for it.
I have tried several niches since I've been here. The only one I have made any money at has been the Wealthy Affiliate campaign. It is the one and only thing I've made money at, and together for all time, is quite significant though many here have made that or more in one or two months time to my nearly nine years here.
I have not yet given up with this, but it doesn't look good now and I have a pit in my stomach as I write this. About three months ago, I simply could not even force myself and have not written anything since. At this point I need to treat my Wealthy Affiliate account as a needed service rather than a place to make money. My finals in life are not monetary. This whole thing might be just a long case of writer's cramp, I don't know, but I don't see it as ever going back to what it was at this point. I will still stay in for at least another year and treat current trends with myself as a slump.
Daniel
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PMindra
Premium
Hi, Daniel.
So nice to hear from you again.
Wealthy Affiliate is a life-style. Hang in there. I have no problem with paying for a membership that is secure and puts me in connection with so many around the world.
Soon, many platforms will become 'pay as you go.' Lock yourself in here and be grateful.
I know of so many that are here just for the 'Social Aspect' of being within a society that truly cares and is understanding.
These same people find their reason for being and use everything that WA has to offer to move forward at their own pace. Education and Learning is priceless.
I have always respected what you write and for the most part, your healthy approach here at Wealthy Affiliate. It would be a shame to lose you as a member but we can still be in touch through other means of social media.
You may find the following post helpfull: Ikigai - "A Reason For Being" Wishing you best returns in the new year that is upon us.
Kindest regards from Ontario, Canada.
Paul.
So nice to hear from you again.
Wealthy Affiliate is a life-style. Hang in there. I have no problem with paying for a membership that is secure and puts me in connection with so many around the world.
Soon, many platforms will become 'pay as you go.' Lock yourself in here and be grateful.
I know of so many that are here just for the 'Social Aspect' of being within a society that truly cares and is understanding.
These same people find their reason for being and use everything that WA has to offer to move forward at their own pace. Education and Learning is priceless.
I have always respected what you write and for the most part, your healthy approach here at Wealthy Affiliate. It would be a shame to lose you as a member but we can still be in touch through other means of social media.
You may find the following post helpfull: Ikigai - "A Reason For Being" Wishing you best returns in the new year that is upon us.
Kindest regards from Ontario, Canada.
Paul.
Reply
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
.
What Do You Love to Do?
What Does the World Need the Most?
What Are You Good At?
What Can You Get Paid For?
I can see my problem here.
What I love to do IS what the world needs the most
I am good at learning it but very bad at communicating it so that causes a problem in the third question for me pertaining to what I love to do and what the world needs the most.
The other problem comes in the 4th question. This is not a monetary thing - it's more along the lines altruistic. Money won't come right away and isn't my top objective. I can't say what this is because it is forbidden on here, and there will be no discussion about it, but in that, the money could come later. The work building it will most likely take most of the rest of my remaining life.
I have no idea about garnering support until I can live off it.
I had not the terminology until I read your article. It is well done by the way. Simply said, I can't find anything that would satisfy all four questions. I realize in most things, we would be looking at ideals rather than what it actually culminates to be. I am sure this is the problem with every entity.
In time I probably could satisfy the last two questions but in the meantime, what I am doing now is something I am losing my love and passion to do - something I have worked on for many years, but under some of the worst of conditions and then, getting older and values changing, etc.
Very well said nontheless and a challenge. I am, for one, not towards the "golden years" scenario you pointed out in the article. I am one who does not fill his mind with rubbish and am very minimalist when it comes to American-style entertainments. To me, this is rubbish. I see my remaining years going on as I have been, looking to improve, gain in knowledge and of course, wisdom.
You have actually put words to some unworded thoughts inside me. This has been a BIG help to me! Thanks!
Daniel
What Do You Love to Do?
What Does the World Need the Most?
What Are You Good At?
What Can You Get Paid For?
I can see my problem here.
What I love to do IS what the world needs the most
I am good at learning it but very bad at communicating it so that causes a problem in the third question for me pertaining to what I love to do and what the world needs the most.
The other problem comes in the 4th question. This is not a monetary thing - it's more along the lines altruistic. Money won't come right away and isn't my top objective. I can't say what this is because it is forbidden on here, and there will be no discussion about it, but in that, the money could come later. The work building it will most likely take most of the rest of my remaining life.
I have no idea about garnering support until I can live off it.
I had not the terminology until I read your article. It is well done by the way. Simply said, I can't find anything that would satisfy all four questions. I realize in most things, we would be looking at ideals rather than what it actually culminates to be. I am sure this is the problem with every entity.
In time I probably could satisfy the last two questions but in the meantime, what I am doing now is something I am losing my love and passion to do - something I have worked on for many years, but under some of the worst of conditions and then, getting older and values changing, etc.
Very well said nontheless and a challenge. I am, for one, not towards the "golden years" scenario you pointed out in the article. I am one who does not fill his mind with rubbish and am very minimalist when it comes to American-style entertainments. To me, this is rubbish. I see my remaining years going on as I have been, looking to improve, gain in knowledge and of course, wisdom.
You have actually put words to some unworded thoughts inside me. This has been a BIG help to me! Thanks!
Daniel
PMindra
Premium
Wow, Daniel.
Thank you.
"Very well said nontheless and a challenge. I am, for one, not towards the "golden years" scenario you pointed out in the article. I am one who does not fill his mind with rubbish and am very minimalist when it comes to American-style entertainments. To me, this is rubbish. I see my remaining years going on as I have been, looking to improve, gain in knowledge and of course, wisdom."
You have found your Ikigai.
I wish you nothing short of complete success as you move forward. I am blessed to know you.
Best and kindest regards always,
Paul.
Thank you.
"Very well said nontheless and a challenge. I am, for one, not towards the "golden years" scenario you pointed out in the article. I am one who does not fill his mind with rubbish and am very minimalist when it comes to American-style entertainments. To me, this is rubbish. I see my remaining years going on as I have been, looking to improve, gain in knowledge and of course, wisdom."
You have found your Ikigai.
I wish you nothing short of complete success as you move forward. I am blessed to know you.
Best and kindest regards always,
Paul.
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
PMindra
Premium
It's all about helping others, Daniel. The Monetary falls into place all by itself.
Kindest regards.
Paul.
Kindest regards.
Paul.
PMindra
Premium
What is your Passion, Daniel. I know you have one.
Start here: Ikigai - "A Reason For Being" And then maybe move forward to googling Paul Mindra..
There might be some food for thought.
It is for the most part, good Daniel. Do not lose faith, hope and dreams.
Your friend from afar.
Paul.
Start here: Ikigai - "A Reason For Being" And then maybe move forward to googling Paul Mindra..
There might be some food for thought.
It is for the most part, good Daniel. Do not lose faith, hope and dreams.
Your friend from afar.
Paul.
DebbieRose
Premium
So sorry you are feeling such anquish. Go easy on yourself and do what brings you joy. All the best.
Debbie
Debbie
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
It's not so much anguish as it is simply frustration and disappointment. Once again, I find myself in transition and some wasted years trying to work something I have lost interest in. This is no good under any circumstances.
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
With the staggering amount of members on here, it wouldn't surprise me that there would be. I have not met that person yet though in times past, I have gotten help on here.
It is more than evident that I need to move into another direction.
Thanks.
It is more than evident that I need to move into another direction.
Thanks.
keishalina9
Premium
hey hi Daniel! ... just wanted to pop by to say hello and to help give you a wee bit of moral support ...
just read a few of your writings and realize that you've been with WA for a good length of time -- something like 9 years coming in....
thanks kindly for all your sharing to date -- it's vital that you be happy with whatever it is in your heart to do ... 🧡 ... as it impacts on one's health as well ...
i've been learning alot since being here and still observing of how much there is to do ... to get to that ongoing passive income ...
it sounds like you might also need a change of scene to renew, refresh, rejuvenate your spirit ... and perhaps something is coming up soon for you ...
i'm around and if you need a shoulder or an ear ... then it's ok ...
thanks again for all your efforts & sharing ...
enjoy a beautiful, holiday season, all the best, cheerio ... 😊
here's a lil' virtual gift for you 🎁 it can be anything you'd like!
just read a few of your writings and realize that you've been with WA for a good length of time -- something like 9 years coming in....
thanks kindly for all your sharing to date -- it's vital that you be happy with whatever it is in your heart to do ... 🧡 ... as it impacts on one's health as well ...
i've been learning alot since being here and still observing of how much there is to do ... to get to that ongoing passive income ...
it sounds like you might also need a change of scene to renew, refresh, rejuvenate your spirit ... and perhaps something is coming up soon for you ...
i'm around and if you need a shoulder or an ear ... then it's ok ...
thanks again for all your efforts & sharing ...
enjoy a beautiful, holiday season, all the best, cheerio ... 😊
here's a lil' virtual gift for you 🎁 it can be anything you'd like!
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
Hello Keisha,
I really appreciate the kind words of encouragement. I find it extremely challenging and there is no let-up. I do try to keep going but sometimes I just have to stop and it is very hard to get back into it.
Like you said, I am human and I do have my down times. I feel I have wasted the best of my years and would like to go without regrets. I had hopes that this would be the thing, but as Jay said tonight in his webinar, we can be our own worst enemies, and in spite knowing this, I do fall. It gets harder to get back up every time.
Even so, I am now mulling over in my mind on how to reorganize and change audiences to those I'm more suited for. I have never done very well in the Secular world and this has been continuous. I have been chased out of employment and I mean literally on more than one occasion.
I have begun to write that book. It is the culmination of everything inside of me that I have to offer this world. I strongly believe that this is my final work. I have been in isolation for many, many years and before this, had no childhood. This is a very long story. I even began writing a journal when I was 13 years old to try to come to understand myself and why I was being picked on so badly back then. I still keep the journal now 45 years later. I want it to have a happy ending but the years are waning and I have not resolved this yet.
I am so far removed from mainstream society that it definitely affects my ability to do the work here. No television, no media, no Hollywood, no consumerism and much of my training comes from antiquity.
I can see how contentment makes for better health and you are so right about this.
Thank you for your encouragement.
Daniel
I really appreciate the kind words of encouragement. I find it extremely challenging and there is no let-up. I do try to keep going but sometimes I just have to stop and it is very hard to get back into it.
Like you said, I am human and I do have my down times. I feel I have wasted the best of my years and would like to go without regrets. I had hopes that this would be the thing, but as Jay said tonight in his webinar, we can be our own worst enemies, and in spite knowing this, I do fall. It gets harder to get back up every time.
Even so, I am now mulling over in my mind on how to reorganize and change audiences to those I'm more suited for. I have never done very well in the Secular world and this has been continuous. I have been chased out of employment and I mean literally on more than one occasion.
I have begun to write that book. It is the culmination of everything inside of me that I have to offer this world. I strongly believe that this is my final work. I have been in isolation for many, many years and before this, had no childhood. This is a very long story. I even began writing a journal when I was 13 years old to try to come to understand myself and why I was being picked on so badly back then. I still keep the journal now 45 years later. I want it to have a happy ending but the years are waning and I have not resolved this yet.
I am so far removed from mainstream society that it definitely affects my ability to do the work here. No television, no media, no Hollywood, no consumerism and much of my training comes from antiquity.
I can see how contentment makes for better health and you are so right about this.
Thank you for your encouragement.
Daniel
keishalina9
Premium
hi Daniel -- thanks so kind for your writing to me -- i appreciate very much your expression of self and what you feel inside -- did you know that very few can do that? ...
uhm -- i know -- you have a very special talent that you have yet to uncover within yourself -- or perhaps you have and are anxious about this 'strength!' ...
and hey by the way, there is no way that you're going to pass on without having dealt with whatever needs to be done in this life -- i can assure you ... otherwise, the Universe will just bounce you right back in to 'repeat' ... i don't think that's necessary in your case as you demonstrate insight and that's half the battle here ...
don't ever feel 'stuck' as there are a myriad ways of looking at things -- just need a new view or a slightly different one ...
frankly, life is precious -- you have life! ...
hope you have at least one trusted person around you who you can talk things over with ... of course you're your own best friend .... it really is vital to have a sounding board for your thoughts & feelings and to work through them ... sometimes, things do look insurmountable ... however, that's just part of a life lesson ... it's just getting 'through' the challenge(s) or perceived difficulty ... most of it's an illusion ...
anyway, i'd feel comfortable continuing our chat to see of how i might be of help ... you can learn more about me through my profile and blogs ... and if you feel comfortable yakking with me, then, sure.... we can continue the conversation and you can also pm if it's better for you at this time ...
sometimes, life is like running the hurdles -- just focus on getting over the first hurdle, and when that's done, there's the next one ... that's what builds our character and makes us human ... and compassion for each other and all other living beings is what distinguishes us from androids ... you know robots! ...lol ....
keep well, keep happy! ... it's amazing what happens when you smile outwardly -- you'll find that you're smilin' inwardly, too!
here enjoy a cuppa warm hot cocoa ☕️ & smile a bit! ... 😊
uhm -- i know -- you have a very special talent that you have yet to uncover within yourself -- or perhaps you have and are anxious about this 'strength!' ...
and hey by the way, there is no way that you're going to pass on without having dealt with whatever needs to be done in this life -- i can assure you ... otherwise, the Universe will just bounce you right back in to 'repeat' ... i don't think that's necessary in your case as you demonstrate insight and that's half the battle here ...
don't ever feel 'stuck' as there are a myriad ways of looking at things -- just need a new view or a slightly different one ...
frankly, life is precious -- you have life! ...
hope you have at least one trusted person around you who you can talk things over with ... of course you're your own best friend .... it really is vital to have a sounding board for your thoughts & feelings and to work through them ... sometimes, things do look insurmountable ... however, that's just part of a life lesson ... it's just getting 'through' the challenge(s) or perceived difficulty ... most of it's an illusion ...
anyway, i'd feel comfortable continuing our chat to see of how i might be of help ... you can learn more about me through my profile and blogs ... and if you feel comfortable yakking with me, then, sure.... we can continue the conversation and you can also pm if it's better for you at this time ...
sometimes, life is like running the hurdles -- just focus on getting over the first hurdle, and when that's done, there's the next one ... that's what builds our character and makes us human ... and compassion for each other and all other living beings is what distinguishes us from androids ... you know robots! ...lol ....
keep well, keep happy! ... it's amazing what happens when you smile outwardly -- you'll find that you're smilin' inwardly, too!
here enjoy a cuppa warm hot cocoa ☕️ & smile a bit! ... 😊
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
I have this time to write. I am having severe family problems and of course, there are holiday engagements with friends. This is why I have not gotten back with you right away.
You are so right about hurdles. I am going through a most painful time of my life right now. This is recent and has nothing to do with what I blogged about on here.
Being able to speak my mind is exactly what got me into trouble and has many, many times. I have been severely beaten up for trying to be myself throughout life. Most people don't do this because it can cause serious repercussions. Most prefer to just do what the herd does. I have never been that way and it has led me at times, into isolation.
I do have to shift gears at this point and put out my final message to the world. The transition is not easy. This is why I wrote the blog. Even some people on here don't understand and it has confused some. I don't mean to do that and it is there with a negative tone. I am simply being honest.
I realize I should not be saying this on here, but I don't appeal to the universe. I make my appeals to the One who created it and Him only. This is none other than God. This is merely a statement of fact about my life and is not meant for discussion here because of the rules.
It has been brought up to me in the past that part of my problem is that I am trying to reach the wrong audiences. I have very seriously considered this. I have great love and support for Wealthy Affiliate but not the wherewithal to promote it. At least, I have not found the right formula in my life and personality to do this. Perhaps that will come even though it has been nearly nine years now in the making.
I have closed out many projects. I have relocated to a far safer, much better environment than I had last year at this time. I have matured that much more, learned more about the world around me and have become much more sober and serious about life. (sober not as coming down from being drunk.)
When it comes down to promoting consumer products, I am way off in left field because I hate consumerism and do not engage as most people do in life. This being said, it is extremely difficult for me to get into and promote these products. I have been promoting WA but this is quite different. I have had some success with it but nothing to write home to Mom about. I am not well-understood, therefore, not well-known. I have never been popular and have never been able to sell or market very well, though in mine own way, do market, as you well know we all do in our own ways.
You are so right about hurdles. I am going through a most painful time of my life right now. This is recent and has nothing to do with what I blogged about on here.
Being able to speak my mind is exactly what got me into trouble and has many, many times. I have been severely beaten up for trying to be myself throughout life. Most people don't do this because it can cause serious repercussions. Most prefer to just do what the herd does. I have never been that way and it has led me at times, into isolation.
I do have to shift gears at this point and put out my final message to the world. The transition is not easy. This is why I wrote the blog. Even some people on here don't understand and it has confused some. I don't mean to do that and it is there with a negative tone. I am simply being honest.
I realize I should not be saying this on here, but I don't appeal to the universe. I make my appeals to the One who created it and Him only. This is none other than God. This is merely a statement of fact about my life and is not meant for discussion here because of the rules.
It has been brought up to me in the past that part of my problem is that I am trying to reach the wrong audiences. I have very seriously considered this. I have great love and support for Wealthy Affiliate but not the wherewithal to promote it. At least, I have not found the right formula in my life and personality to do this. Perhaps that will come even though it has been nearly nine years now in the making.
I have closed out many projects. I have relocated to a far safer, much better environment than I had last year at this time. I have matured that much more, learned more about the world around me and have become much more sober and serious about life. (sober not as coming down from being drunk.)
When it comes down to promoting consumer products, I am way off in left field because I hate consumerism and do not engage as most people do in life. This being said, it is extremely difficult for me to get into and promote these products. I have been promoting WA but this is quite different. I have had some success with it but nothing to write home to Mom about. I am not well-understood, therefore, not well-known. I have never been popular and have never been able to sell or market very well, though in mine own way, do market, as you well know we all do in our own ways.
keishalina9
Premium
.... thanks kindly for sharing ... everything emanates from within ... check in with your inner self and have a good look around to find the true self ... you might be amazed! ... ⭐️
Capn ERyc
Premium
I'm confused, Daniel: you have reached a ranking that I have only dreamed of, and yet you say it is not profitable? You are obviously doing something right, even though you are not hitting the "cash out" button. So what should someone in my position (rank) be doing to develop cash flow? I have always assumed that if I did what was required (even though I have been dormant for a few years) to improve my ranking then the cash flow would follow but your story seems to indicate that this is not true - that the cash cart does not follow the horse. Please, somebody, tell me it isn't so!?!?!
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
My writing is the problem as it tends to push people away rather than draw them into what I'm promoting. I have had this issue for years and I just can't seem to get it right.
I note that you've been a member since November 2011.
First, know that WA ranking is not the same thing as ranking with the search engines. This is a very big difference and one that many newer members don't understand at first. Why I'm not profiting from my work has nothing to do with WA as I said above. It is that I find I'm simply not cut out to be doing this, in spite of years of trying to make it work. I don't write on here like I used to. I actually write not very often at all. I don't know why my ranking on here hasn't plummeted like lead. through water. I don't pay very much attention to my ranking because other than being a fun thing, it doesn't do anything.
I have personality issues that seriously affects my ability to do the social aspect of marketing, which you must agree, is important. I have suffered from social retardation since I was very young and still missing the components that the average person has. For years I have been trying to fight this and overcome, but even so, it is so ingrained in me that, not only have I been put on disability, it has affected what I have been trying to do here. It apparently shows in my writing, even when writing reviews and I can't gain trust.
It is a disorder that is causing the problem, and in this way, you need not be concerned how this would affect you in your own journey. This is why I was very careful to mention WA not being at fault nor is the teaching here inferior in fact, it is far superior to anything else you will ever find. I am very discouraged with this trying to overcome these issues in my life. I do have cashflow but it is very tiny and has been this way since 2012 after I had the one spike. Like you, I have also had times of dormancy, and is so once again. I do know that doesn't help either.
I note that you've been a member since November 2011.
First, know that WA ranking is not the same thing as ranking with the search engines. This is a very big difference and one that many newer members don't understand at first. Why I'm not profiting from my work has nothing to do with WA as I said above. It is that I find I'm simply not cut out to be doing this, in spite of years of trying to make it work. I don't write on here like I used to. I actually write not very often at all. I don't know why my ranking on here hasn't plummeted like lead. through water. I don't pay very much attention to my ranking because other than being a fun thing, it doesn't do anything.
I have personality issues that seriously affects my ability to do the social aspect of marketing, which you must agree, is important. I have suffered from social retardation since I was very young and still missing the components that the average person has. For years I have been trying to fight this and overcome, but even so, it is so ingrained in me that, not only have I been put on disability, it has affected what I have been trying to do here. It apparently shows in my writing, even when writing reviews and I can't gain trust.
It is a disorder that is causing the problem, and in this way, you need not be concerned how this would affect you in your own journey. This is why I was very careful to mention WA not being at fault nor is the teaching here inferior in fact, it is far superior to anything else you will ever find. I am very discouraged with this trying to overcome these issues in my life. I do have cashflow but it is very tiny and has been this way since 2012 after I had the one spike. Like you, I have also had times of dormancy, and is so once again. I do know that doesn't help either.
Capn ERyc
Premium
So, if I understand you correctly, in order to profit one must achieve rank with the search engines through social marketing? and you have a problem with that, as do I.
If you read my background, you'll note that I am an engineer and therefore, by nature, not socially oriented - an engineer is trained to discover why things don't work, but not necessarily how to make them work, especially in a social environment.
I am also not an author, by nature, which inhibits blogging and perhaps justifies why I find it tedious work. Perhaps this is not the place for me as well! There is so much to learn here so I'll stay for a while, but long term it may require too much effort to earn even a wee stipend.
Thanks for responding to my confusion so quickly. I wish you well in your future endeavors.
If you read my background, you'll note that I am an engineer and therefore, by nature, not socially oriented - an engineer is trained to discover why things don't work, but not necessarily how to make them work, especially in a social environment.
I am also not an author, by nature, which inhibits blogging and perhaps justifies why I find it tedious work. Perhaps this is not the place for me as well! There is so much to learn here so I'll stay for a while, but long term it may require too much effort to earn even a wee stipend.
Thanks for responding to my confusion so quickly. I wish you well in your future endeavors.
Daniel Euergetes
Premium
Not that you won't profit but that you are more likely to profit doing this if you are more out-going. The way I write is not exactly within the standards of today's consumer culture and I am so out in left field with that stuff that it isn't something I can do very well. What you have said is similar to being a software programmer. Many programmers are introverted and an outgoing personality isn't as much of a trait. So yes, I understand what you have said.
I can write but I am not writing to the right audience and therefore not getting very far. Consider that perhaps you are not reaching the right audience. Someone mentioned this to me and it makes good sense. What I mean by "right audience" is just like saying "not in the right niche."
What I can do right and do well in happens to be an unpopular topic so all around for me, this has been quite a challenge.
I can write but I am not writing to the right audience and therefore not getting very far. Consider that perhaps you are not reaching the right audience. Someone mentioned this to me and it makes good sense. What I mean by "right audience" is just like saying "not in the right niche."
What I can do right and do well in happens to be an unpopular topic so all around for me, this has been quite a challenge.
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