Grant Cardone vs. Tim Ferriss: Which should our Work Ethic Look like?
Earlier, I posted, and it became a pretty interesting debate with everyone here about which marketing approach is better: Gary Vaynerchuk vs. Russell Brunson. If you haven't added your valuable feedback about that, I'd love to hear your thoughts here.
That debate left me thinking about two other very successful and oppoite philosophies: Grant Cardone and Tim Ferriss. They are two very successful entrepreneurs that butt heads on what types of schedules we should have. On the one hand, Grant Cardone says:
- We shouldn't try to have balance, and goes as far as saying work-life balance doesn't exist
- We should be "all in" working
- We should be working as hard as we can
- and, We shouldn't try to have 4 hour (or even 80 hour work weeks!)
Then, on the other hand, Tim Ferriss says:
- We should "work smarter"
- Automate and outsource as much as we can
- Aspire to the 4-hour work week
- Live the laptop lifestyle
- Control our time and our schedules
- and, "live life on our own terms"
At the core of it, I've seen that there's a stark difference between the end goal and who it's meant to serve. The 4-hour work week enthusiasts typically are trying to reach lifestyle freedom, time freedom, and not have a boss. They often cling to the easy route under the guise of "working smarter".
In contrast, the Grant Cardone enthusiasts seem to be targeting much more wealth, personal challenge and Grant himself talks about legacy at times. They're more attracted to the challenge, the aggression, and opportunities to outpace others thru hard work.
The popularity of both means these two philosophies really reasonate at large, and within this community, we run into a follower of one or the other nearly every day! It makes you wonder, which do most people really want? "Smart work" or hard work? And, can you have both? What's the real consensus on what success is? Is it the laptop lifestyle, working less while gaining more, and freedom? Or, impact with others and legacy?
Which do you think is the most fulfilling route? Which leads to the greater success? What definition of success do you cling to more?
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I know and like both of these guys. (As well as Russell Brunson and Gary Vee!)
I don't even think it matters what philosophies they take on. It matters what works best for you.
I also think that once you have an exciting goal that you HAVE to get to, you might "hustle" to get it, but it's an inspired hustle. Know what I mean? You WANT to work for it because it feels good.
I do think some balance is necessary in life. You have to have fun and have great experiences. I guess you can do that through your business, but it would mostly exclude your family (if you have one).
Also, question for you, Tiffany (and anyone reading this)... Do you think it's different for us Moms trying to work a business than Dads? (Generally speaking of course.)
Because from what I see, it is different. Maybe Grant can work 80+ hours a week, but I can't. (Not that I want to.) Most of the house / and kids stuff lays on my shoulders because I'm the one at home.
- Christina
I love your term "inspired hustle" and I agree with that. Your question is great though. I think the variance of what moms can do vs. what dads can do depends on the amount of "buy in" to your idea.
This is my take for now... I'm open to hearing other's views on this....
I totally relate to you about the responsibility of the mom (even if she has a desire to work). I have the responsibility too.
I've noticed the women who are able to have success with both are very interconnected with the community, so I make it my goal to nurture relationships that help give me leverage.
They may have rec center memberships, female friends they barter with, childcare, nannies (even a live-in nanny), a mom that lives in-house, or hired help, so the weight doesn't fall all on the mom. While, I don't have all of those options at the moment, I can see how they would each be helpful in the rolodex of support over time, and they're on my list of goals.
I don't want to be the mom that is disconnected, but I want the leverage to give more harmony and productivity. I think it can be done where you're able to accomplish a lot in the home and outside, and that's a goal of mine.
Dads typically rely on the mom to nurture, so I agree they usually don't feel the pressure of being sensitive to the emotional needs of the kids and those around them. I think it just doesn't come as natural as it does for a mom.
You can start out with the nurturing and home management weight, but if you really want to grow a large company, it takes quite a bit of time and effort to get off the ground, and you'll need community support for sure.
Great points you brought up for sure! Thanks for that.
Excellent points, thanks for that! Interesting point about being connected with the community. I hadn't thought about that.
I think we're both in similar boats with the mom thing, except my kids are a little older, which is definitely helpful.
I don't want to use them as an excuse as to why I'm not performing as well as I should, but at the same time, we only have so many hours in a day.
That said, the whole reason I want to do this and be successful is so I have the flexibility to be around when my kids need me. So if that means a little slower growth, that's fine.
I'm not going to be Grant Cardoneing it any time soon, I guess. lol
- Christina
P.S. Happy Mother's Day!
Honestly, I don't know enough about their philosophies to make a determination... That said...
I think working 10-15 hours and having no balance in your life is a very lonely and self-serving path. Your only goal is work as hard as you can to make as much as you can. That way leads to serious stress and nervous breakdowns. I had one as a teenager because I was overextended on classes in HS and projects and I literally did nothing but homework anytime I wasn't at school, including entire weekends where I was pulling all-nighters to finish multiple projects for different classes. I got tension headaches so bad I was in the ER with my mother a lot. It sucks.
Admittedly, maybe it's harder on a teenager than an adult, but I find that if I don't set aside time to relax even now, I get serious anxiety, headaches, and I get ill.
I also think 80-hour work weeks leaves no time for family and friends or your kids. Millionaires are just as miserable as ordinary people. Money is just money. Is it awesome? Sure, but when you die, you can't take it with you.
So I'd lean more towards the 4-hour work week, though I'd likely work a LOT more. But I need decompression time and time to be with people I love. If I make less because of it? I don't mind. I want financial freedom, not to be a millionaire. :)
Wow! That's an interesting take. Thanks for sharing your story. I agree that having a mix would be the best case. Harmony and being able to leave the greatest impact in personal and professional life is my favorite option.
I have read The 10X Rule by Cardone and The 4 Hour Workweek by Ferriss. I liked both of them. These guys are fearless on all the aspects of their lives, and this is what I try to learn from them.
When it comes to their working strategy, both of them try to win in any way they can. They are too competitive.
Tim Ferris likes to work smarter but he doesn't avoid the hard work when is needed. He wants the freedom of enjoying life, and this is what most people want no matter how much they work.
On the other hand, Grant Cardone goes all in on every project. He can work 10-15 hours per day, has a lot of passion for everything he does and sets ridiculously high goals. But he works smart and hard! He loves his work so he lives life on his own terms as well.
Two great philosophies of life.
Those are great takeaways from both. Why do you think the perception from 4 hour work week has drifted many people into believing they can get rich without working sufficiently for it?
Because some people are lazy so they make their own conclusions. They use this book as an excuse to stay inactive.
The 4-Hour Workweek motivated me to take difficult challenges and try new things. It is not about working one hour per day and playing video games or watching tv the next 23 hours. He just wanted to do other things than work in life.
Tim Ferris has achieved many things by outworking or outlasting his competitors. It's a combination of work hard and work smart.
Also, he creates videos on YouTube and has written some great books. These things take work.
Great points. I'm glad you were able to see more from what he's saying than what seems to be the common takeaways.
First of all Russel’s program is very expensive. I am sure he is successful at what he does but he promotes high ticket program within his funnels and they run from anywhere over 1k and above. Their target audience are obviously people with money to burn like Tony and Robert, Rich Dad and Poor Dad, he looks for people who are already rich to funnell into his mastermind group that costs over 10k or more. Im disgusted with that idea of marketing upsells after upsells, thats how he got rich and I feel this isnt an ethical way, he uses people who have money. People like myself who have limited income wouldnt be able to compete with that. Looks like another MOBE. I follow nobody none of these gurus. No way. My business plan is like yours help people thats it, not to make money off of you but to help people learn how to be an entrepreneur in their own way without all these guru that don't always walk to talk, talk is cheap. I follow none of them. Their idea works for them because thats how they created their own marketing but in the same token its taking advantage of people losing money and not get rich’ they got rich from selling their own mastermind groups and who wants to pay all that money when the mastermind can be found for free- don't you think? I follow me and decide my business to help peolple not about rich or working smarter or hard just help people solve a problem. Thats it.
Thanks for sharing your views. I understand why you feel that way. I see the prices and that there's no product exchange (simply ideas) and my eyebrows turn up for sure. Then, on the other hand, I know the value in relationships, and I know you don't form certain relationships without sacrificing something significant to get in the presence.
Sometimes, the pay wall serves as liability protection for people of influence, and there's other reasons as well. Overall, I'm not against high ticket prices when I can calculate a return on investment. If it's a $10,000 mastermind, but I know as a result, I can yield even $11,000 as a return, the upfront cost doesn't bother me that much. It has to make sense though and not be based around hype and optimism.
I can't click the like button. I agree to disagree with you because if a person can't afford 10k for a mastermind group then it's not producing value. it pushes the poor people out. They can't make it. Because the only people who have money to burn are ones who already are rich and can blow the money on that. If I have 10k would I spend my money on some secret mastermind group? Or Two comma club? No way. Instead, I would use that money to reinvest into my business in my marketing like doing ads and all that. But not pay for some sick high ticket sales that are going to burn a hole in my hard earned money just to get commissions. If I want to join a mastermind group to become an affiliate- I must pay 10K is that right? No, not in my book. I rather reinvest into my business than to follow some "secret" group. No need for that. No value in that. Value is to be "a club" a rich club -who needs that? Eventually, the FTC will get to them as it happened with MOBE and among others. It always about hype and money. Not value. Your audience would have to be rich people. Your ads would have to target rich ones. Not the general population the average hard working people. It is better to create a product that has value and charge within a reasonable price that makes it affordable for everyday people.
Of course, I value your opinion. I understand the context and situation you're referring to. I don't think it's appropriate for people who can't afford it to pay (regardless of the price).
It's important for the consumers to use their best judgment as well as for the business owner to be fair. With that said, I don't get the impression that the high ticket masterminds are targeted at everyday people. In some cases they are (like MOBE) and that wasn't right. I don't think that's appropriate to target "everyday people" when 10k could be more than 1/5 of their incomes.
Instead, I think it's only appropriate to target the people who could get a return from their investments. There are many products and services that target that audience. Luxury cars, luxury purses, and sports cars are also targeted at that market. Some people like to spend on those things, and some people may get a return from it.
I can't say. It might not be my cup of tea as of today, but I can't say it's wrong. Like I said, if I were in their shoes where I was considering, I would only buy in if I could assuredly calculate my return on investment.
Like you said in your training about advertising. you did note that if you had kept up with the ads you would have seen great strides in your ROI in WA. Its good that as business owners we go through a learning curve. We find what works and what doesn't. I’ve been in sales and in sales we teach ROI can be lucrative only if marketing is done properly to reach the right target audience.
Good point about people who could not afford a something, they wouldn't be the right target audience. Calculating your ROI is a numbers game. I am sure you already experienced that when you did your ads. Now you know it worked for you in the past. Hopefully you can get back into doing ads again.
One thing that WA has that is different from others is no up sells. Its affordable for most people less than $400 a year. BTW, some blogger called WA, A MLM. There will always be someone with that opinion. I felt that person misunderstood, so I corrected that blogger in the comments section. He has since apologized and changed his content a little bit. Researching other bloggers helps for the purpose of writing a rebuttal for reviews. Awesome!
I agree. I hope to get back into ads at some point. ROI is a numbers game. I like how WA has made the program accessible, and I see the pros and cons of that.
As for the blogger that called WA an MLM, they were obviously misinformed. Wealthy Affiliate's affiliate program only pays you for one tier of referrals; not multiples. A multi-level marketing company pays you for several levels of downlines. Whether it's a MLM or single tiered affiliate program isn't an opinion.
I think the opinion would be whether the product or services are valuable to them, but as a fact, it's not an MLM.
Great points Brenda.
'Smart work' it is indeed.
Balance is the Law of the Universe.
To our tremendous smart working success!
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I guess I'm a bit of both. Sometimes I can work an entire day, focusing on my work and get the job done. Problem is the question: for how long can I keep this up?
On the other side, working smarter is something that is required more and more. People come to realize their limitation in time, and being effective in what you do is of an essence.
So I say I would go with Tim Ferris, even though "all-in" concept is something I see a lot around me. But, it leaves consequences way too much.