If you use a program that self promotes to all YOUR bookmarking sites ONE time. You are in control. Even Google does not have a problem with self promotion...That is what Adwords is all about. But if you use a program that you give away your id and password to and it creates hundreds or thousands of links that is IMO black hat methods. Nothing says you can't do something more efficiently. I have stated I use Comment Kahuna. I use it to find complimentary websites and I will read a post and make a comment and yes leave a link. I will also leave comments on No Follow sites. This is called networking. But I will not pay some person in INDIA to sit there all day looking for sites to comment on and leave links on my behalf. I don't use CK to find any old site to make comments and leave a link. If I have a car site then I want to find other car sites to leave comments on. I am not going to comment and leave a link to my car site on a site about breast feeding.

I'm curious, what rules do you speak of?

When it comes to grey hat methods, I do some, but I will only do it if it's something that I would do manually. For example, I will automate social bookmarking, article submission, rss submission. I would do the same thing if I didn't have any tools, the only difference is that the tools I use allow me to do it faster, thus saving me time to focus on creating content and more important things.

Over the last 5 or 6 years or so, many an internet marketer has found their business in the dust because Google changes the rules yet again to regain trust in their relevancy model. Those that follow the rules are the ones still standing.

IM is defining itself and its use through us IM'ers. And Google and its ilk are keeping us agog with its latest new rule/s to keep things in check. A cycle of pull and push, demand and supply - how the internet is used and promoted via us IM'ers and the world. What is gray today, may just be as white or as black tomorrow! IM and You are... Who really cares - let us join in the competition and make some waves - hopefully for good.

Integrity is important, just be the marketer you want to be. I do believe top marketers have ethics. As it's common to say taht 90% of internet marketers, I'm sure they are the gray hat guys. So be on the other side, you'll be honest AND successful! :)

This is a great discussion - glad I saw it - just read back the past few days. Sounds like we have to decide for ourselves what is ethical and what is not - the internet is still an "unsettled territory"... how on earth would anybody police it all?
It is probably a good idea for those of us who don't really know - just to ask on the forum -- does this sound ethical to you? Maybe that would help us make decisions when we are in doubt.

Link cloaking actually is used to keep Dishonest people from bypassing your link. Its a shame that we have to do link cloaking. Its no different than using virus software to keep viruses out of your computer.
Grey and Black hat SEO. 1 example. Google uses popularity for ranking your website. The position of your website in Search Engine Results (SERPS). They feel that if you have a site lots of people go to for certain keywords and they bookmark it in Digg and others, then you MUST have a relevant site. So there are lots of people who think its alright to use a program to SPAM social bookmarking sites to increase the link popularity of their sites. These programs can literally give you thousands of backlinks. These programs will even make it a point that they will do this in DRIPS so that it won't raise any red flags. That statement right there should tell you it is a dubious practice.

Is link cloaking considered black hat or gray? Or not? JW. I think some do consider it bad.

BTW, What exactly is Gray Hat SEO methods. Can you give examples?

Wow aRBie. Respect to you. Integrity or lack of it affects all of us. When I tell people what I have been doing online, it's amazing how many think that I'm going to be professionally damaged by a sleezy industry, hurting myself, wasting my time. I'm the same high integrity person I've always been. My inbox is full of black hat techniques being promoted as if it's a reasonable part of the biz.