This is a real fuzzy area to try and moderate or lay down the law - and in short, it would be done because of Google? Google is only one part of the internet, right? I have to ask what the real difference is between using software that automates comment posting, or using software that finds the post for you to comment and link on... I'm not trying to be rude, ok? According to Google, ANYTHING we do online that is done with the purpose (or hope) of manipulating our rankings in their search engine is against their TOS - period. Would you still use Comment Kahuna if you were NOT getting a link out of it? Would you still comment if there was no place to put your url? In the big picture, it's the same difference. I'm not defending or advocating any of the above, I'm just saying that finding a line between "right" and "wrong" is far more difficult than perhaps you think.. It's also in all marketers best interest to at least be aware of all the ways others are beating their rankings. We also each need to take acountability for our own marketing style and techniques - it's not up to Kyle and Carson to police us or parent us. Thoughts?

I never thought of automation tools as black hat. My understanding of black hat is anything that isn't legit such as : keyword stuffing, invisible text, doorway pages, etc.

Using automation tools isn't any less unethical then going to websites posting your links by hand. I'm sure blog owners wouldn't care rather or not a message with commercial intent that takes away traffic from their blog was posted by hand or using automation tools. They would feel the same way about it (SPAM) at the end of the day and delete your comment. It's what I do. Piggy backing off others to promote your own site in my opinion is crossing the line. I do however use automation tools for my bookmarking and don't feel like I'm doing wrong.

I believe in playing it straight too, letting the value and quality of you information and good SEO practices carry you. Frankly, I don't want the worry associated with Black Hat techniques and the embarrassment if found out. I think you're putting a lot at risk by using those techniques. Wonder how many members WA would lose if they enforced TOS.

You take things to the extreme. There is a HUGE, HUGE, HUGE difference between child pornography and spamming software or black hat seo. You go to prison for child pornography, you can't go to prison for spamming. Do you really think someone here is gonna promote child porn to us? No, this is an IM community where people promote IM products. I don't do black hat seo but if other people want to do it, then that's their business and I can't do anything about it just like you can't either and I don't consider black hat seo an "injustice" Who knows maybe I'll mess around with it in the future!

Your picture has a little one. Would you care if there were those here who promoted Child Pornography? Old Saying..."If you turn your eyes away from an injustice and say nothing...then you must be alright with it."

Who cares. Grounds for dismissal?? I think you are still heated up over that discussion you and Andy had in the forum. I personally don't care what others promote, I'm busy trying to write articles(and make them better,ugh) to care about what others promote.

The TOS I'm referring to is what is promoted on WA. The promotion of spam software and Black Hat Seo practices should not only be banned but should be grounds for dismissal from WA.

And how does WA enforces this TOS? It can have a perfect TOS, but WA can't force or oversee people in how they operate their own online practices. Where are these promotions taking place - right here in WA? Or elsewhere?

I agree with you that people should use honest ways to promote their sites. The Internet already has a lot of junk on it as it is, and the whole emphasis about connecting a customer with a product that he wants to buy sounds like it's all about helping people. The black hat methods that you refer to seem more like taking advantage of people. We should definitely all choose to take the higher road. As the Executive Director of one of the companies I affiliate with is fond of saying, "Let excellence be the only authority."