Bullying On Wealthy Affiliate? What You Need To Know!

Last Update: March 31, 2020

Hi, Everyone...

Marion Black says it well below in her comment:

"Let's not start a Flame War..."

My post today is in regards to another post that covers the subject of bullying and more...Since the comment below was deleted I am reposting as is here for all...

I spent a lot of time on this comment and I do not want to lose the effort...

The bottom line: Marion is right...

There is just too much stuff going on right now for us to waste a bit of energy on any kind of bickering back and forth here.

Let's just all try to be kind to one another, and treat one another like we want to be treated...

It is that simple, but at times, it can be easy to get caught up in the minutia that is out there...

Anyhow...

Background

The background story is that there was a back and forth comment thread from a post on whether there are too many off-topic posts on this platform. The question of what is allowed and what not came up, and then the party started...

What started as a good discussion devolved into a virtual shouting match with opinions and rather disrespectful comments being thrown around from all sides...The people on one side felt justified in belittling and insulting and were surprised when the other side did the same (?)...

In any case, apparently the author of the post on off-topic posts decided to delete the post and thread and even went so far as to change her name and delete the few posts that she had made over the years just because of the many negative comments that were directed between participants and towards her.

In my conversation(s) with this person prior to me leaving that thread, she knew full well that this was a controversial subject, also that she expected some flack (as there are a lot of people that do post things unrelated to affiliate marketing)...

She did not expect as much as she received, apparently, and some went overboard with their attacks on both sides. I can say that her and I did have a good interchange and there was no bullying on either side.

Bullying

So the issue now is bullying - who are the bad guys and gals, what bad people they are, and more (you can read the post here):

https://my.wealthyaffiliate.com/calvinator63/blog/bullying-within-wa-what-say-it-aint-so/comment/27192320

Here is my comment which was deleted...There are more perspectives than what is being presented in the article above.

Mine is one....

Dave's Comment:

"Hi, Sara...

Let me provide some context for you from my perspective about the bullying subject of this post and the "other" post that is discussed above (that we are not to discuss)...

There are two "camps" of people and those that are somewhere between when it comes to any issue and this apparently worrisome subject of what is allowed and not allowed as a blog post on this platform is no different.

Bullying and opinions...

This divide continues with this post, as the subject is purportedly about bullying, yet half of the post is about another post that we are not to comment on or mention in our comments or risk having our thoughts (comments) deleted.

I do understand the desire to address the cause and not the symptom (bullying versus a post on off-topic posts which resulted in some perceived bullying), so I give this point a pass...

But the underlying theme of this post could perpetuate that discussion, potentially...There are some points made that are up for such a conversation...

My Opinion(s)...

We can have a discussion and keep the condescending, snide remarks out of the flow, but it has to go both ways. To get respect, you have to give it.

That test failed and that was covered extensively from the author's point of view in this post...There was mud slung from many and all sides in that thread...

Bullying can happen on both sides of any discussion and if it is "your side" then we tend not to look at it as bullying. It is the "right thing" and we should accept that as we are right, they (the "other camp") are wrong...

By cherry-picking examples from the post we are not to talk about here in the comments, however, there is a picture painted for us that may or may not be accurate as to what transpired...

To provide an objective perspective, full context needs to be provided for the "shameful" comments quoted/cited? This was not done...

The "shameful" comments may have been replies to "shameful" comments from the other camp?

So the lesson is that we turn the other cheek to these bullies (and if the mud-slingers are in your camp it is okay that they sling the mud)?

Do we let it slide or call them out for their bully behavior by giving it back? Be careful what you ask for is one of many things my Mom taught me...

She also taught me...

You can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, so most of the time it is easier to just ignore the taunts (remember for the "other camp" these are justified because they are right) and move on...

Regarding bullying here on this platform...

So while the point of not bullying is valid, the example used was not objectively covered, IMO...It takes away from the gist of the post for me, but I do agree on some of the things mentioned...

As a result of the subjective synopsis of the post that inspired the author to write this post, I could see where this coverage could set off another hailstorm of comments, which could then devolve into bullying, if not cut off by the author...

The point is that bullying is not nice and should not be used, but it has to go both ways and apply it to everyone. Period. That after defining what "bullying" might be...A whole other post that really is not covered completely in this post...

Perhaps ANOTHER set of guidelines from Kyle and Carson?

As to whether things get out of hand, they do on occasion, and they did on that thread we are not talking about. Personally, I checked out of that thread once I saw where it was going after some back and forth...

Whether or not permanent damage has been done to the author of the post discussed is a question we will never know, but I doubt it...I do imagine that she was very uncomfortable with some of the comments...That is not okay...

But...

From the sounds of what I read and shared with her, her interest is not in posting on this platform, rather it is the desire to focus on her business - a good thing. Perhaps I am wrong...

The bottom line is we can be civil with one another and should be...No matter what position on anything that is posted here that should be the case...

But also realize that if you believe in one side or the other, it does not mean that your bullying is acceptable and know that if you give it, you will in many cases receive it right back...

Also...

Having a good discussion is of value, so we have to be careful that we are not unnecessarily censoring people and limiting their voices on this platform, no matter the positions each may have on a particular subject...

We can state our position using civility - the initial counter-point to the other post we are not talking about was mine, as I presented another perspective that is in alignment with the rules and was not bullying in any manner, way, shape, or form...

Unfortunately, the subsequent conversation in the post we are not mentioning did have some elements of bullying - the "other camp" was fine with their behavior, apparently not so much when they were on the receiving end...

Cooperate and graduate is what I was told a long time ago. It is true when you have a community as large as this one...We can all get along and make accommodation for one another's differences...

Bullying is not needed...Neither should we calmly accept it - much like the "Me Too" movement, calling it out is fine...Make sure it is not a case of the pot calling the kettle black, or be ready to be called out for it...

In a nutshell:

(1) Bullying - bad...

(2) Discussion - good...

(3) Censorship - bad...

(4) Getting along - good...

(5) Agree to disagree, etc. and let it go...

In closing, I have plenty of work at the moment, and really this took much more of my time than I planned, but providing an alternate perspective of this topic may be of value to some, who knows...

Take care Sara and all and be safe...

Cheers!

Dave : )

NOTE: IT DID GET DELETED, BUT DUE TO ANOTHER COMMENTER (SARA) DELETING HER COMMENT...NO MATTER NOW IT IS HERE! : )

Everyone take care...

Dave : )

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Wdcope Premium
I just came upon your post from reading another. I remember that back and forth, and I was off of it in a New York second.

Finding and reading your post was very timely though as I was just commenting on another persons blog off of our platform.

The points you made in your post are a good explanation of the activity that happened.

My comment today to the other marketer, was to be fair and understanding to others in this business. The unfair reputation online marketing or affiliate marketing gets is due to the kind of views on both sides.
Growing up in a family business I saw how my father treated other similar businesses. He did not portray them in a negative way, but treated them as others trying to live and grow theirs to feed their families. This made him very successful and respected in our town.
We are all human just doing our best to survive and learn, which during these times today is very important

Early on I learned that to become successful with integrity and great ethics with positivity was the route to take.

Some time back before online marketing became so negative to each other it was about value, benefits etc. to sell and advertise. It still is to those products and companies who are very successful and those becoming successful.

Every day it seems new software, marketing products and other ways to promote are coming out. Within hours they are torn apart by reviewers who feel it will benefit them this way. I argue that it reduces their integrity and the integrity of affiliate marketing in the MMO niche.
Your post was very well put and appreciated. Wealthy Affiliate is an awesome program that is used by so many to learn and grow online.
Proper discussions are always good if done right as you stated.
Just some quick thoughts I had.
Take care, be safe,
Bill
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CordeliaN Premium
High Dave, it’s good of you to bring the voice of mother (reason) into the discussion.....wheel out the big guns..(Marion Black) .👍..As Marion said, it’s amazing how things can escalate, small nuances intonation and stuff can easily be. misunderstood.

I value many opinions on this community, yours being one. ( and Sara’s) And appreciate the time you spent in responding and trying to calm the waters, however I later noted the writer was very terse and passive aggressive with our lovely Lappara from Spain..


No one likes to be bullied or belittled, but equally no one likes to feel controlled, walking on egg shells or feeling like the author is behaving passively aggressively. Threatening to delete someone’s comment on their post if they don’t conform to orders (sorry requests) is indeed passive aggressive.

But like we said rather than comment on a post just ignore, life is too short.

Funny thing, I work in a prison, a men’s prison and when they are banged up for unreasonable amounts of time without exercise or social interaction, (like now) they very quickly become irritable, bored, aggressive, self harm and eventually fights and riots break out which have horrid impact.

Now whilst I am not for one minute suggesting our WAers are like my guys inside, there are, never the less, some huge mental similarities.

So what I say to them, things like, “get out your bed, stop feeling sorry for yourself and walk with me whilst we talk about you” They May cry, (yes they cry) they may sulk, they may even say, “miss you just say the words (heard them before) you don’t really care” (I care, but it’s perspective)

it’s usually fear or anxiety based, that is what I’m hearing now.
Too much time lots of fear and plenty of mental anxiety and ZERO tolerance. Now who was I talking about the intelligent community or Cat B prisoners (in for very serious crimes).....

The outcome is the same, 😢😢😢 just a different class of outcome
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DaveSw Premium
Hi, Cordelia...

What a great case study that you have highlighted with your own experiences, and I appreciate the thought and effort you put into this comment...

You capture the dilemma perfectly - bullying versus the feeling of walking on eggshells trying not to provoke some response from the people pushing their agenda...

Either position should not be in the mix...The stress that is there from the trying circumstances we are all living with at the moment is adding fuel to this dilemma I think too...

You take care of yourself, that particular segment of the population is particularly vulnerable to this virus, and it only takes one person to give it to many...

Cheers and thanks so much!

Dave : )
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CordeliaN Premium
Thanks Dave,

Such a surreal time at the moment, I sometimes struggle to get my head around the implications and how it will all end....

Re the last paragraph, you are so so right, we (the substance misuse and clinical team) are just sitting and waiting for the dam to burst, it will only take one or two and it will rage through the prison, all hell will break out, but because it hasn’t happened yet “Complacency” has become the friend of many.

Stay safe 😷👍
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Swangirl Premium
I agree! Thank you Dave. You have taken the time to put into words what I was thinking when I read the post you refer to here.

It seems all rather simple when you consider this basic concept.

If something is truly spam (self promotion with links, scams, advertising etc) then mark it as spam.

If a post here at WA is just not about a topic you have an interest in, then don't read it! We have control over what we read here. If we don't prefer that topic, then don't click on it, or click off when you figure out it is a topic you are not interested in. With so many thousands of members it is inevitable that people will be writing posts about entirely different topics, many of which we may not be interested in personally. That is the beauty of WA! Most of us enjoy this diversity. Kyle and Carson have already said there are big changes coming and I have seen suggestions of different blogrolls for more work vs. personal topics. I have no idea if this is actually in the works but in any case it is up to Kyle and Carson how they want to set the rules and apply them. It is certainly not appropriate for a member to bully another member for writing about a topic they don't want to read about if it is not CLEARLY in violation of the spam rules.

I see multiple members whom I consider friends considering leaving WA or at least no longer blogging or engaging here because of this controversy. That is really a shame.

Jessica
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JeffreyBrown Premium
It is indeed a shame, Jessica, and not necessary, IMHO! Stay safe! I hope you and yours are well!

Jeff
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DaveSw Premium
Hi There, Jessica...

Sorry for taking so long to reply, kinda busy at the moment hehe. I know that is counterintuitive, being that so many are locked into their homes (me too) but that is really the case.

I am launching 4 different products at the moment, each tailored to helping people that are stressed out and possibly as some members here are, maybe we can get people thinking about something else other than who is posting what...

You take care of yourself, and I have to say that you also packaged how most of the platform members feel (I say this based on what we have been doing over the years)...

The changes that are coming may address some of this, let's see...In the meantime, I do have a lot of work so will keep doing what I can here to help others, and even post a personal or social blog if I feel the need. I hope others do the same...

Cheers and take care of yourself and the family!

Dave : )
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Swangirl Premium
Good for you Dave! You sound extremely busy and productive. I know how you feel a bit. My husband and I both have to work still and in the meantime we are worried about our parents who have health conditions and trying to keep them safe. My in-laws will be flying back here via Seattle next week and Seattle is one of the hot spots in the U.S. with many cases.

Even here we have been having deaths every day recently.

We also have additional vacancies right now and yet another water leak in the old building to fix (this is the third time a leak has sprung in the ceiling on one unit so each time it is finally fixed and cleaned up and I get ready to rent it, we get another leak in the kitchen ceiling!!!). We have a vacancy in another unit due to coronavirus layoffs as well and that unit will get a full remodel.

I don't remember if you saw my posts about my massive increase in traffic and sales and then the sudden drop off last month. I was getting 800 visitors per day, it was amazing. I was on course to make $800 or $1000 from that one site last month. I managed to make $500 before it all came to a sudden halt. Most of my traffic for that site was coming from several posts I did on supplements that can help with coronovirus immunity. The supplements have been tested and shown effective against SARS and due to the structure of the new coronavirus (same lipid coating, same use of the ACE-2 enzyme to enter our cells etc), these supplements would likely be effective against this virus as well. I cited many studies (with active links to full text articles so people could read them for themselves), stated I was not a doctor, explained no one knows for sure what will work since it is so new etc. Despite all the disclaimers and citing dozens of sources, Bing shut me down.

Most of this massive traffic was from Bing and Yahoo. Usually Google is the majority of my traffic but I think due to Google's changes regarding medical sites this year, I was doing better in Bing. My posts were #1 for dozens of different terms such as "supplements for coronavirus protection" and "vitamin D for coronavirus" for over a month.

I don't know why other sites selling their own supplement to supposedly treat it, with no information, no list of ingredients, no explanation of how it is supposed to work, no citations, no science, no evidence of any kind, no doctor verification, no disclaimers at all can still be ranked when my site was banned by Bing! Bing told me my site did not meet their quality standards but that is all they would say. They are not ranking any of my posts.

I was pretty upset. I see the Federal Trade Commission is shutting down sites that make any claims or suggestions that anything can be used against COVID-19. They gave an example of a site that had wording similar to mine that just stated a certain product had been tested and shown to be effective against SARS. That is simply a true statement! The censorship is getting pretty bad.

So I had to decide between pulling those posts in hopes of salvaging my site and not getting banned by Google too or leaving it up and editing it. I am not happy with just caving into this censorship. So far Google has not stopped ranking them so that is good for now.

I also started a 4th website...not the most efficient use of my time since I can't keep up with the 3 I already have but I was so discouraged it helped to start something new.

I hope you continue to stay safe! I started to get all the same symptoms again last week. They stayed mild however so i am guessing I have partial immunity and got infected again. I saw that happened in China where someone had it, had recovered then got symptoms again a few weeks later. Hopefully after 2 rounds with COVID-19 I will have bullet proof immunity now!

Stay healthy!

Jessica
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JeffreyBrown Premium
Hang in there, Jessica! You are a good soul and this will all pass and you will once again be on top of your game, my friend!

Jeff
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Swangirl Premium
Thanks Jeffrey. You too!
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Swangirl Premium
Thanks Jeff. This really took the wind out of my sails. It am trying not to say "it was too good to be true". It was true...It was working. I was providing information that people really valued and appreciated and they found me by the hundreds through organic searches...

I keep telling myself if I did it once I can do it again. I am just afraid there will always be a glitch and something will always stop me. I guess this has really messed up my confidence. All my life I have managed to work really hard and finally do really well at things and then get I slammed down and it all comes to a screeching halt.

Kind of like my Master's Degree work. I spent 10 years working on a Master's Degree. I completed all the courses with straight A's. Do I actually have the Degree? No. The school had a lot of problems over the years and the programs got changed multiple times. Administration at the time told me the courses I took would count, all those people left and the new administration says they don't all count because they are too old and I have to retake them. Of course they are not cheap.

They had professors die and other issues and so they could not offer certain courses in certain years, they had to wait for the program to get final approval which drug on longer than expected etc. They were all issues beyond my control. But of course they want me to pay a fortune to retake the courses. I just didn't have the energy to fight it. I had serious health problems and lost my Dad in the intervening years. It was all I could do to keep my job and go to school at the same time.

At least I got two graduate certificates along the way so I have something to show for it.
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JeffreyBrown Premium
Yes, Jessica! That is something! It still sucks what happened. My diploma just collects dust in my office since I've been self employed for over thirty years!

Take care and keep persevering! You're one of the strongest people I know from the sound of it!

Jeff
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JeffreyBrown Premium
You're welcome, Jessica, and I will!

Jeff
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JosonInc Premium
Well, well.... I see the name of the same member who told me flat out that my topic on COVID19 was 'off topic' in your thread above.

I also see that the words 'off topic' is mentioned in your post above so I see a connection to the Trouble Source.

Who the heck are we as members to set a rule here to say that another member's post is off topic. Only Kyle and Carson should have that say.

Anyway, enough bull has been scattered by some and enough damage created. So I am laying off. Some folks have ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder). I sure am glad I am not infected. That could be worse than the Rabid/Morbid COVID .Ha ha ha.

Have a good restful evening Dave.

Joe
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Chezbrown Premium
Joe, there are a wee group of people that some refer to as the WA Police. They always think they have the right to comment when they don't like what's posted. Just ignore them as they are just looking for a reaction.
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RamiSociable Premium
Well said Joe!!
R.
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JeffreyBrown Premium
Here, Here, Cheryl! The voice of reason has arrived (another Brown, I might add!)
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JeffreyBrown Premium
👍👍😎
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I have been here now, going on my 11th year. It isn't anything remarkable but I have seen this kind of stuff go on a number of times and early on, have been involved in the off-topic wars myself.

I have not been bullied by any of this, but I have been for bringing up the topic of entitlement mentality, which was meant as a general lesson, not at all pointing any fingers. It resulted in one of my worst online experiences. I got teamed up on, tricked into getting involved in a bogus joint venture which was made up so my email account could be hacked, where I was joined up with porno sites in and around London. The whole thing resulted in the revocation of my write privileges on here. It was a very bad scene and fortunately never again repeated. This occurred in my third year, 2012. It was ironically the same year I had the most sales. I almost left for good but didn't.

I have been "rankspanked" because I used to write about off-topic stuff on here. Most or all of this material has been deleted long ago. This was a hot, and very sensitive topic and almost always caused all kinds of contention. As for the off-topic, it has been here as long as I have and prior. It will not be gone any time soon. To bring up such topics does little else than cause problems in spite of good intent, and this is once again - another example.

It is suggested in the rules that the writing on here not be off-topic but it isn't enforced as one might think it should be. Many antidotes and further discussions about this is already right here.

I used to be far more active on the Platform than I am now, but it's these kind of experiences that made me back away. Albeit, it doesn't change how I feel about WA. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing like this platform, the services and the community anywhere that I have ever seen. On most public forums all it takes is having a viewpoint that is a little different or off in some way to get the inevitable, "You're an idiot."

It happened to me on http://GOG.com, a gaming website and community when I disagreed about a certain game on there. How trivial!

Folks here have very strong feelings about WA, and is no wonder - it commands our patriotism and love for the Platform and the community.

I dealt with the off-topic problem in a very different way...

Since discussing it rarely works on here and that it was jamming up my email account with myriads of notifications leading essentially nowhere, I gave this some thought - and then acted upon it.

I nipped the whole thing at its source - purged my WA Buddy List. That fixed it! It did take time to do this because of the research involved and the creation of a criteria to work by, to such an extent I had a few on here telling me just how counter-productive this was...

But it worked well! I purged my Buddy List and this in turn cleaned up all of what I considered useless coming in as notifications. What I have left - to this day - are email notifications I can actually look at and see on-topic posts! I turned a mountain of junk into a potential source of learning and support, now that I could see what I wanted and not be hidden by the vast quantity of the junk I was getting!

Since I have effectively divorced myself from it, I have no more gripes about it as it occurs - and for good reason - I don't get it anymore and I don't see it. Out of sight, out of mind.

Opposing it doesn't work. If the above would amount to too much work to accomplish, as I have done, it's simply best to ignore it and if Kyle and Carson see fit to put a stop to it, so be it.

It took a few members on here that provided constructive criticism (that I didn't like at first) to change the way I interact with the community on here. One, certain topics - leave them alone! Two, respect everybody and know that each person on here has their own unique reasons for being on here.

The bickering just is not worth it. All it does is make things worse and Jay made a very harrowing statement about how other members, especially those just in the door, find this stuff. It can, and does make WA and the community as a whole, look bad. Will disagreements go on? Yes. This is inevitable anywhere there are human beings, but we can do our part in keeping it down as much as possible, especially dealing with controversial topics as professional as possible.

If my experiences shared here are worth more than 2 cents, then I have been successful, but it's not meant to be a rant nor pontificating but meant to help.

Daniel
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DaveSw Premium
Hi, Daniel...

The words and thoughts are like fresh air! They are spot on and for those that are upset about whatever they feel is not appropriate, they will not see if they follow your advice...

I am in and out of the platform, more out lately, and definitely more out, going forward...The times are over when I had a lot of extra space in my day where I could post here...

As funny as it sounds, now that we are all pretty much locked down, I have less time than ever due to some of the work I am into. Good work, by the way...

I do agree with you on the value of the platform. There is nothing like it yet out there I have found, even with a little of this unnecessary stuff going on...

I really appreciate your insight on this and do hope that everyone drops this and moves on. I am. You take care of yourself...Good to hear from you and always nice to see you pop in...

Cheers!
Dave : )
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The same for you Dave.

I have noted far more notifications, all positive ones from WA since the coronavirus took over the world, and have been encouraged by this. It is very good to see WA just as healthy as ever which offsets the reality of the pandemic, dealing with the bad news, bath tissue shortages, panic, etc. All we can do is what we can. Ex: I will beat the paper shortage by installing a bidet. It will be here soon...

You be safe and this goes for the rest of the community...

Best,
Daniel
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DaveSw Premium
Thanks, Daniel... Cheers my friend... : )
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