Are We Becoming Less Helpful?
I worry that we are becoming less helpful. Why? Because I see other people talking about it. Certainly, it has not been my experience, but I won't deny the validity of someone else's point of view, especially if they have been here longer than I have, and have seen changes in the atmosphere here.
For me, though, I still find WA to be incredibly helpful and welcoming. I have received help from senior members and newer members who may still have more knowledge or experience. In fact, some of them have reached out to me, offering help without being asked.
My most recent example of how this community helps out is in regards to Jaaxy; I have mentioned that I would be interested in joining up, but due to my financial situation, I wan't sure how I would manage it. Incredibly, more than one member approached me and offered to help me out so that I wouldn't miss the opportunity to join before the impending price increase. To have someone (actually multiple someones) offer to literally pay for me just blew my mind. Some would say it's "only $19" but that's still money that someone else worked for and for them to be willing to spend it on someone that they know through only some blogs and one picture is pretty incredible.
The fact that multiple people have made the offer is even more amazing, and indicative of the community that has been built here.
So, I don't know if the community has changed over the years. I will accept the word of those who know better, but I also want to point out that there are a heck of a lot of good, helpful people left.
Thank you so much to all of you.
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Although I rarely go on Live Chat, I still see quite a number of people offering help; even a lot of the questions asked can be easily found, members seem to be willing to help.
I have had a similar experience, Craig but it was with paying for my monthly membership! I never asked for help, but with certain people that you've built a deeper relationship with, you're able to share more of some personal things that may be going on in your life. To my surprise, someone offered to pay for one month! I don;t even know the sound of their voice, but they proved that a "virtual" friendship can be just as meaningful as a face-to-face one.
That is a great point, Craig!!! I can't imagine a community that could be more helpful!!
I am always in awe of the responses to questions and the opinions on blogs, the offer of monetary help when needed, etc. I cannot imagine a place that is more helpful and supportive.
Take at least one of those offers of help..it could change your life. And I know that down the line you will repay the kindness, if not monetarily, definitely in kindness. That is what we here at WA are all about!!
Cheers,
T
I haven"t seen the change Craig. As a matter of fact, older members are making their presence more often as in the past. Lots are happening here at WA, maybe the reason for the presence. Glad you were offered help from the community. They are awesome here at WA.
They certainly are.
And yeah, I have seen a couple of older members start posting a bit more frequently, as well as a handful of returning members.
What a super post Craig!
I agree with you about how "some" people are talking about it.
It has not been MY experience here either! WA has been a wonderful place, with tons of super knowledgeable people that have shared their experience, pain, and expertise.
I too have had a similar experience like yours! I think you were even on that thread! lol
Matthew posted on the topic about receiving an email from Amazon stating he had 90 days to make a sale or he would lose their program. I too got that email and many others as well.
Another wonderful WA member offered to make a purchase from both our sites so that we would not lose the Amazon Associates program, OR so that we would not need to change out every post on our sites!!!
HOW THOUGHTFUL and VERY CARING was that???
I too say thank you to everyone, and thank you Craig for a nice read! :o)
Awesome!
That's wonderful. I had someone do the same for me some time back. He said he needed to buy something anyway, so why not help me in the process? I was very grateful to say the least. He's actually one of the ones who offered to help me out in other ways-- which he did, quite a bit.
I am happy to hear about your experience. I fully understand why some people think things are changing, I really do, but I just like to point out that there is still a lot of good here.
Hey, Craig--
There are definitely some wonderful and generous people here, and I am glad they offered you financial assistance to pay for the Jaaxy membership.
I am as poor as poor can be these days, but I took the leap anyway and bought into a monthly membership. I know I can't afford it, monetarily, but I can't afford not to make the purchase, either. If you are anything like me you understand exactly what I mean by that.
Let's pray that soon we will not be so financially stressed out and then we can make those same generous offers to others who may be in need. I think they call that paying it forward. :)
Linda
I do absolutely understand what you mean!
I'd like to think that at some point in the future I will be successful enough that the increased cost wouldn't even be an issue, but until I get there, the lower price would be very helpful!
that is really great to hear because like you I can see the importance of upgrading now, but I don't really have the extra money to pay for it and if I wait until it can clear on my credit card I won't be able to do that until after the increase occurs
From what I have heard (and this may not be totally accurate-- best to check with Kyle), given that Jaaxy membership is paid by Paypal, which not everyone has or even wants, there was *supposedly* (again, unconfirmed by me) a comment made by Kyle that members using credit cards might be able to join later at that price, once the option to use cc becomes available.
That would be fantastic, but only Kyle can say for sure.
I haven't witnessed any drop in the level of personal helpfulness.
It's been my experience members have always been generous, both in time, spirit and financially towards other members, and that's obviously still the case given the kindness you've been shown and mentioned above. :)
The issue that I've seen and been part of the discussion about is on a professional level.
Firstly, there are a lot of members proffering advice when they don't have the experience to back it up. This is especially problematic in regard to those with a high ranking and also Ambassadors, as newcomers and even many longer term members believe those at the top of the table are in that position because they know what they're talking about.
Unfortunately, this often isn't the case, for an example, see my comment here: Giving out the wrong advice with good intentions and why it needs to stop. Secondly, there's now a dearth of knowledgeable, experienced, talented, successful members willing to spend time engaging with the community.
I'm afraid despite repeated requests, most of them are not willing to create training and content that is of value to both newcomers and the more experienced members, simply because it gets lost amongst all the non-internet-marketing related *noise*, again see another of my comments about this here: Giving out the wrong advice with good intentions and why it needs to stop. So, yes, unfortunately I'm afraid we are becoming less 'helpful', just maybe not necessarily in the way that you mean !!
I understand. As you know, I have popped in to that conversation myself.
I wonder though-- and this is purely speculation and me trying to figure things out-- is it because we are attracting a different crowd to WA? I don't mean this in any sort of elitist way, or anything. I am just wondering.
If we look back a few years to when WA may have been somewhat less popular or well-known, it appealed, presumably, to people who were very business-minded. I suspect that those who were very focused on creating an online business were the ones to really help WA get rolling. There may have been a greater appeal to "professionals" who already had some internet or marketing experience.
Who do we focus on today? Due the popularity of Facebook, Twitter and other social media, many members seem to be using them to advertise, drawing in a different crowd. I know from discussing it with some members here that when they promote WA, they are aiming at people who are perhaps unemployed, in dead-end jobs, underpaid or in debt, or just generally unhappy with where they are in life at that moment. I know that's the group I come from....
So now, instead of purely business-minded people, we have people coming in from social media, who are used to commenting on everything and who may not have much experience, but are anxious to help because they understand what it's like to be having difficulties.
I am not trying to insult or denigrate anybody-- hopefully people know me well enough not to think that-- but I am simply pointing out what I think could be a reason that old-timers perceive a change in the community. If anything, the people coming in now are probably more in need of assistance and mentorship than those in the past.
Just a thought.
It may well be the case, but it's still a problem.
If newcomers don't get the 'quality' support they need to build successful sites that earn them an income, they leave.
I've already had two long-standing referrers contact me today, saying that for them not only is conversion becoming issue, but so is retention.
I don't refer, but if you do or are going through bootcamp to become a referrer, do you really want to put a lot of time and effort into attracting visitors to your site, then struggle to convert them to members, only for them to walk after a month or two? I would think most referrers would prefer to have referrals like me, who go annual and stay, year-after-year-after-year.
The only real downside for me in regard to the current situation is that I could still learn from some of the incredibly talented members who used to make more advanced training on a regular basis, but now can't be bothered to because of all the *noise*.
That said, I'm lucky, I'm in a privileged position, as I can afford to be a member of half-a-dozen other sites like WA. I'm a member of some like WPMUDev for the technical aspects, others like Authority for the content marketing.
I can therefore move backwards-and-forwards between different training sites to access the information I need to continue advancing my online business. I'm afraid that's not the case for everyone else, though.
"... do you really want to put a lot of time and effort into attracting visitors to your site, then struggle to convert them to members, only for them to walk after a month or two? I would think most referrers would prefer to have referrals like me, who go annual and stay, year-after-year-after-year."
Definitely.
I fully understand your points and agree with them. I have only had 3 people come in to WA through me so far, one of whom didn't even fill in their profile, and the other two left after one day.
Not what I was aiming for.
I don't claim to have any answers here. I think it's a complex issue. I'm just expressing some of my thoughts. I feel that if there IS a solution, it will only be found through talking about it.
EDIT: I am very appreciative of this conversation, by the way. I think it's a valuable one. I just wish there were a more obvious way to start moving forward and hopefully finding a solution.
I do agree, it's an incredibly complex issue.
You're probably not aware, I was originally in favour of social content, albeit within reason, and of social Ambassadors too. However, the ridiculous behaviour by a minority of members since I first went to bat for them, coupled with discussions with those that refer, about conversion and retention due to 'social' activity, has resulted in me changing my mind.
However, I'm hopeful that another tweak to the algorithm and Phase 2 of the update will resolve some of these issues.
I'm sure they'll also be much more discussion on possible solutions, but hopefully behind the scenes by the interested parties, such as delaying the ability to assume Ambassadorship, certified training, etc. etc.
RE: YOUR EDIT: It'll obviously be Kyle's and Carson's decision, as it should be, their house, their rules. I know they'll happily listen to everyone's point-of-view, but obviously the wishes of the major referrers, who are bringing millions to the table every year, will no doubt carry a lot of weight too!! ;)
I know you're not looking for accolades, Rich, but I'll give them anyway: Although I tend to shy away from Live Chat, whether in the morning, noon or night, I see you there, offering help. Even though your help was directed at the person asking the questions, they have helped me as well. So, I thank you.
I may have been one who contributed to the "noise" as you say, but it was done inadvertently. When I came onto this platform a year ago, I saw a diversity of writing styles and posts; everything wasn't just about building an online business, there were motivational posts, some "JFF" posts as Craig calls them. These posts were coming from Ambassadors and other members alike, so I didn't question it. As months passed and I became aware of the Spam Rules, I saw there were a lot of discrepancies, so it became a bit confusing.
I don't offer any apologies to any of the posts I've written, because I know the value I've added to the community and that what I wrote came from the heart. But I do agree that many new members could easily get lost in all the activity, so I've challenged myself to take a look, more regularly, through the unanswered questions. To my surprise, I know more than I give myself credit for!
Anway...I don't expect nor do I desire to agree with everything that's said on this platform. But I do have a tremendous amount of gratitude and respect for the majority of members I've come across on this platform. It really is incredible! Thank you again, Rich, for all the ways you serve the community.
What a great response.
I've said a few times that I don't really have any answer for this issue, and that's the truth. I have no idea what can be done. I don't want to see the "fluff" go away entirely, because frankly, I find some value in stuff that others don't. I do recognise, though, that this is a business platform and business should come first.
I love the more lighthearted stuff, but the thing that brought me here was the thought that I could find a way to make a good living working online. That appeals to me because it will help my family. Anything that potentially threatens my ability to do that is going to be harmful to my family, so for sure I want WA to be the best it can be on that front.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what Phase 2 of the changes to the system brings.
Oh, trust me, I'll happily fish for compliments all day! :D
To be frank, my engagement looks a lot more than it really is. I have desktops, laptops, phones and tablets, scattered everywhere, all sync'd to a shortcode library. The vast majority of times when I answer a question, it's really just a matter of me typing a couple of characters and voila, it expands to a paragraph — or five! — of an answer.
I do have to laugh though, as I'm often painted as the "bad boy" in these discussions, when I'm actually the one who petitioned Kyle and begged for the rule to be altered to accommodate social content. I'd hoped for compromise and restraint on both sides, but alas, that so didn't happen.
I also changed my mind about such content after receiving dozens of PMs from referrers, complaining bitterly about how much social posting is impacting their businesses, affecting both conversion and retention. I even had one long-standing member tell me they've stopped referring to WA completely because they are "not in the business of promoting paid versions of Facebook".
The latest algorithm update did prove their point though, despite some members protestations to the contrary, a lot of social content was obviously being posted to game rank, as can be seen by the fact that much of it has stopped since it is no longer rewarded, albeit there's now the switch to faux questions.
I'm hopeful that a few further tweaks to the algo, the launch of Phase 2 of the update which will allow members to decide whether or not they see any social content whatsoever, and perhaps restriction on the speed at which members can become Ambassadors and provide certified training, might satisfy the majority of members going forward.
I'll keep my fingers crossed! :)
I like to embrace change, whether I fully understand it or even agree with it, I know change is needed. I always believe there's a better way to do things, so perhaps, Phase 2 will be a change in the right direction.
The more you mention it, Rich, the more it makes sense...this really is about learning, developing, and growing your online business. What you shared about the negative effects of this situation is quite disturbing. But I do hope that they'll be able to implement something that will separate the "strict" business posts from posts that may not provide the training and direct business updates, but could be just as valuable.
Oh...and I'll make sure to make a mental note about your liking of compliments, lol.
Another great discussion, Craig.
I actually like some of the fluff stuff as well. Granted, some of it was just too much, but it was the diversity of the platform that really appealed to me when I joined WA. If the majority of posts were all about presenting the technical aspects of business, I probably would not have stayed, because it would have been too intimidating for me.
Personally, aside from the series I did, I was only averaging about 3 posts a week; granted, some may have considered what I posted inappropriate, but that's debatable. I've taken a few steps back in posting, primarily to take care of health issues, to focus more on Bootcamp, and I'm thoroughly enjoying hanging out in the unanswered questions.
I will be posting another 10-part series, because although it's not directly related to building an online business, it does deal with success principles to developing any business. Hopefully it doesn't get trashed, lol.
I've never had a horse in this race, Veronica, as I don't refer.
However, whilst the combined big referrers earn millions a year from WA, they first have to bring millions a year through the door and into WA's coffers. It's not much of a stretch to think that their wishes are going to carry a lot more weight than a few social posters demanding "freedom of speech" and the right to post irrelevant content on a website that isn't theirs in the first place. Giving out the wrong advice with good intentions and why it needs to stop. I'd honestly hoped for restraint on both sides, but some members were always fooling themselves if they thought they could keep pushing against what WA is really all about, without eventually encountering some serious push back from those that bring home the bacon!
Hmmm....it seems there's a lot more to this "situation" than meets the eye. Very interesting indeed.... I love learning about what goes on behind the scenes, so I find this is most interesting.
Far be it from me to stand in the way of anyone's bacon....especially if it's smoked turkey!
That's awesome Craig! :) There are so many helpful people here who go out of their way for others, which we don't see in very many programs! I think that's why you find the odd ones who focus on helping others before working on their own stuff, and most of the time it has nothing to do with ranking! This is what I like to read, about the real people out there who go that extra step to help others! :) Wonderful post to read! :)
Yes, I love hearing about people's experiences with thing like this, so I thought I would share my own. It's always nice to hear something positive.
You are right Craig, there are a lot of very good, helpful folks here, I have found that to be so as well. That is awesome that you received offers to pay for Jaaxy!
I believe your engagement and honesty put forth in the community shows your dedication and commitment to your goals here and makes you a worthy investment!
Thant's kind of you to say. Thank you.
I think it's just that many people here understand what it's like to struggle a bit, so they are willing to help when they are in a position to do so.
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I get a lot of my information just reading what people write here. That is great with the help on paying on Jaaxy. I haven't been on here much lately been busy on other things. It does seem like there has been a change here lately go to think about it.
Robert